AH/SM Index

Discussion in 'The Comp Buzz' started by Andrew Holt, May 7, 2019.

  1. Andrew Holt

    Andrew Holt Member

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    I help crew with Jim Pancake and his really cool SS/AH car... and after racing the Columbus D3 event with him I really think that NHRA and Comp racers need to get together, pool our collective bitchin' and respective arms that can be twisted, and get NHRA to get the AH/SM index correct. From my conversations with racers at the track this weekend... it was solid consensus that the current index is stupid.

    Most SS/AH guys are really similiar to Comp guys in mentality, and their cars have just as much money/time/effort in them as many of top running Comp cars. I think the really tight competition the last decade or so has really brought these cars to a very refined level. So they really are a natural fit in Comp... and after some soaking in … I really think these cars and drivers can be great additions to Comp.

    I know first hand that the HEMI guys are very competitive and work hard to win the HEMI shootout... but in reality that's really the only major race. But the rest of the time....I think many of the top guys would have a great time not just testing in Comp... but actually racing in it. They're cool with the full tree... they work on their stuff constantly... and they even have a lot of stick cars.

    I want Comp to grow and if you're gonna expand it with new classes.. those classes need to grab racers who actually want to RACE in Comp... not just show up because its a new place to make runs. Pro Mod guys show up to test. Factory Showdown guys will probably just show up to test. But the Hemi guys could end up being a big active addition to Comp if the index is set right.

    But these guys don't need to pay any dues if they race in Comp. They already run really hard in tough competition and there is no sandbagging. If Comp makes it so that even the best of HEMI runs ever are middle of the pack Comp runs... these guys will not race. They may show up every once in a while... but just to test for their own big race.

    I say a middle of pack HEMI run should be a middle of the pack Comp run. A really fast run in a HEMI car should be a fast run in Comp.... etc etc. I propose an index of 9.05 as a place to start a discussion.
    .
    8.50 is pretty decent run in OK air. So that would make that a -.55 under run.
    Lets say Jimmy Daniels shows up and runs 8.40 in same air. He should be up at the top with a -.65 under run. He's earned it. Their shit is fast...
    In mine shaft a fast car will run 8.30 or quicker. So you run -.75 under... which is what the top Comp guys would run in the same air.

    If the index is alittle soft... CIC and the personal index will take care of it quickly. And the HEMI guys will show up and get into it. Maybe even enjoy it more than Super Stock racing.

    If the index is too hard or even just even.... they will test and focus on INDY... and the AH/SM class will be a class with no real participants RACING in it.

    Ive had no luck with NHRA with rules.... so how can we get this going? Who can you call??? Ill type up the stupid letter myself and run around the pits getting signatures if that's what it takes.
     
    Bucky Hess, Eric Bell, RonP and 5 others like this.
  2. gator mcluskey

    gator mcluskey New Member

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    Why not leave the index alone and write NHRA in liberating the SS/AH rules to turn these cars into actual comp cars for those that choose to go that route.

    1) Replace the 770cfm holleys with dominators or efi
    2) Rack and pinion steering
    3) scrap the bore x stoke parameters and have #/ci limit and min weight much like the rest of the Super Modified classes
    4) No cylinder head volumes, chamber or port. Factory head still need par t# as rest of Super Mod

    seeing Troy chase Jim down in the first round was a joke. Jim missing the tree didn't help, but appeared he put a tire on him around half track. Right now a SS/AH car racing in comp eliminator has very slim odds to win unless a red light or breakage. I can see why most comp racers welcome the SS/AH cars into comp.

    It would be better for comp as a class to not take Factory stockers and Super Stockers and integrate them into their class with existing rules. Less tech and better performance and they will actually be COMP cars not SS/AH making exhibition runs because quota filled up in stock/SS (National) or grade point and/or better parking spot (divisional)
     
  3. Shaun Vincent

    Shaun Vincent Active Member

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    That class is called A/SM or A/SMA.
     
    welkerm and Charlie Yannetti like this.
  4. gator mcluskey

    gator mcluskey New Member

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    Shaun, how competitive do you see an SS/AH car with the above mods against the A/SM or A/SMA index?

    The whole point of this thread was an SS/AH car crying for a new index.
    SS/AH = SUPER STOCK A Hemi

    My point was:
    an actual comp car and not a Super Stock car running in comp
    less tech for NHRA
    the index would stay as is
    maybe see a 7.99 pass out of a AH/SM car
    a few of those items the SS/AH racers have been crying for (forgot to add titanium valves)

    For the uninformed Hemi racer, fact is the AH Hemi head is basically a 55 year old cast iron design. There has been some material added to the latest castings which leads to another subject that Ma Mopar hasn't cast any blocks or heads for some years and most likely never will again. With my proposal some of the cut-up Hemi heads from a few years back when NHRA let SS/AH racers run wild with modifications for half a year, would be usable
     
  5. Charlie Yannetti

    Charlie Yannetti Well-Known Member

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    Just my honest opinion, BUT, if I had a SS/AH car, and saw what NHRA was offering as an index, I'd just say NO THANKS, and stay in Super Stock..

    Comp went through a similar situation, way back when, with the "ECONO" classes.. there were changes, changes, and more changes to the point where "ECONO" is in name only.. and now it's turning around again with the A/Automatic classes, and the D/Automatic classes..

    NHRA did a piss poor job of investigating the class, and not allowing changes to a Super Stock car to make it a Comp car.. I'd say that some SS/AH guy got in their ear, and the SS/AH guys got handed a bill of goods..

    If you want to make your Hemi car a Comp car, you just might need to leave ALL of the Super Stock in the garage.. just sayin'.. NOW, make the rules..
     
  6. RonP

    RonP Member

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    Hi All,
    Last year at the Norwalk national event I spoke with several of the COPO owners about being included in Comp. There were several likes and a handful of dislikes. The common thread was that they wanted the same rules to apply to them in Comp as in FS/XX. The reason they all stated was that is was too costly to develop multiple combinations. I am guessing the AH guys will have the same concern. I provided all the information I gathered last year and emailed it to the COPO program manager and one of the other race group managers I know at work.

    Andrew, since your family is need deep in this category, maybe you should contact someone at Chrysler and provide some data between Comp and SS/AH qualifying at Indy last year. Same track, same conditions and etc makes for an accurate comparison. Data will go a long way to prove your point.

    AFTER I retire, I would like to race Comp or crew, therefore, I do what little I can when I can to help. Not sure if my info made a squirt of difference, but I'd like to think I didn't waste my time.

    Thanks, Ron
     
    #6 RonP, May 8, 2019
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
  7. Andrew Holt

    Andrew Holt Member

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    I don't really see the point for NHRA to have special rules for a "COMP AH/SM" vs a traditional SS/AH car. The point is that the two cars can crossover with no issues. Its a shame we have the politics with gas or you wouldn't have to do anything except change your license.

    Unless you wanna bracket race your way over-engineered high cost heads up built Hemi car... you really only race it once (Indy) or twice (Sportsnationals/Dutch) a year. That's what makes them a great fit for Comp. Ideally, they could race in the Hemi Challenge, and race at a Comp race with the same enthusiasm.

    But my point is that if you are "top contender/might win the race" guy in the Hemi Challenge... why would you show up at a Comp race to sit at the bottom of the qualifying sheet and get blasted first round. If you can win the Hemi race... you should be a top contender in Comp trim.

    Comp needs medium/long term enthusiasts to join the class if it is to grow. A guy showing up to test his car every once in a while is really using Comp for its track time.

    The tech will be interesting... I guess if we see major advances on the AH/SM cars vs how they run in Super Stock trim... those cars probably need to get torn down.

    I just wonder who you talk to/send a letter. Can the advisory board members run with this? Getting any changes in index/rules in Comp is a voodoo science to me.
     

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