CIC Idea

Discussion in 'The Comp Buzz' started by Alan Freese, Nov 1, 2020.

  1. greg williams

    greg williams Member

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    How do you get proposals voted on by active comp drivers and results presented to NHRA for consideration? I think we have quite a few people that are not happy with the monster of confusion that has been created.I'm not familiar with the process to change rules,but would like to pursue it.
     
  2. Joey arrowsmith

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    Greg you need to bring them up to the divison leader who is supposed to get together with the other 6 leaders and then propose it to nhra. Something needs to get figured out where we can run more races to the stripe. We run a class that’s supposed to be an engine builders dream and the only time we get to showcase it is in qualifying. No one understands this index crap except us racing and everyone is to worried to hurt their index they dump at the line. How many cars have been wrecked since this index started from people braking to save index. You want to keep setting your cars up to only run so far under then go run a .90 class and run the stripe.
     
  3. greg williams

    greg williams Member

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    Thanks for the reply.I'll get Chase to talk to Craig and see if we can get something going.
     
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  4. arthodges706

    arthodges706 Active Member

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    I will probably upset some feathers here but here goes. I appreciate the fact we have these division representatives but not really getting it. I have been told by many of them that nhra is not interested in listening. I had an hour conversation with nhra in Dallas and I was told no one has ever approached them with any suggestions or ideas to improve the personal index system let alone I as told there was a pole to bring the system in(was never aware of it until it happened)
    I followed that meeting up with a letter directing to personal index on getting some back and in qualifying. I sent it to all 7 division reps, gave them 2 weeks to respond. 2 of the 7 responded promptly with a very positive attitude.
    I have not figured out how to post the letter but as soon as I do I will.
    Anyone who does a lot of racing has got some personal, I don’t believe you should be punished for life. This was not the intent, it was to get new blood, old blood to come out, didn’t happen, system failed, so now it’s time to do something about it instead of just bitching on this forum. I would love to see our division reps work with all of us to do something. I am not looking at this for just myself, when you read my letter you will see that the best In the last 20 years agree.
    So again let’s work as a whole to make some improvements.
    Happy Holidays to all.
     
  5. gkamp

    gkamp Member

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    Art, You have ruffled my feathers. LOL. I did receive a copy of a letter that you sent to Jeff Conley but thought at that point I would be hearing from him or Rob Park to discuss it. I re-read it and still don't see where you were asking for a response from me to you. I am not opposed to some sort of index give back ( I could sure use it ) but would rather see it be a time period instead of participation award. There are a lot of people that run 40-60 under with no personal that run as many races as we do. What would they get?
    One thing that personal index was supposed to do that it has done well is keep one person from ruining a class for everyone else in that class. Look at the year Joe Mozeris has had in B/ED. He is a good driver but I am not sure if he had to run off of my B/ED index if the result would have been the same.
    No, I did not vote for the personal index system. I was not a rep at that time. The way I understand it the majority of the reps voted against it.
    As far as the mine shaft rule I would like to see another method used instead of how fast everyone goes or how many qualifiers we get. Maybe we could look at the DA before first qualifier or first round and make it based off of the air itself. That way the system could not be manipulated. If I can only go 61 or 62 under wide open and I'm qualified middle of the pack why would I want mine shaft?
    One thing I have noticed ( now maybe I will ruffle some feathers ) is that everyone's opinion of some of the rules is directly related to how used up they are or aren't.

    Greg Kamplain
     
  6. arthodges706

    arthodges706 Active Member

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    Greg thanks for responding, always a class act. The point of this is we need to do something about this and we need to just get the door open with powers to be. I don’t have the answer but I just feel the PI failed for its purpose.
    A prime example is Clegg and Arrowsmith make a couple runs snd really breaks them down For Life. Don’t think that is right, mistake made so punish them for good. The only thing that is for life is divorce and taxes (I happen to know those areas)
    Hoping to just get the doors open to communication.
    Thank u
     
  7. Joey arrowsmith

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    . This goes with the mineshaft deal... you take Houston for example since you mentioned clegg and I, when we qualified on Friday it was 82 degrees and da of 2330.... I qualified 1 at -.709. When we raced 1st round sat morning it was 56 degrees and da was 170ft. I don’t think clegg did anything to slow down but like i’ve said before.... I added 60lbs on the car, slowed my launch rpm down 800 and was scrubbing the brakes and was 16mph slow on the top end and still went -.708under. And honestly yea it sucks to ruin my index but I wrecked it for terry Ticel as well and he had absolutely zero to do with that run. I can switch my car to another class, clegg can’t. I honestly would like to hear some people explain the benefits and what they’re happy with the “pi” system because I’ve heard plenty of negatives from people who are used up and from people who are not. I personally like to keep digging with my car and getting it to run faster, I get great joy out of it.... not setting it up to run -590. If I wanted to do that I’d go run supercomp or some other .90 class
     
  8. Rob Harrison

    Rob Harrison Well-Known Member

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    My suggestion to this predicament that Comp finds itself in , is based on the way it "used to be " . Your class C/A , Art , may be the "best representation" of Comp , high RPM , clutch , 5 speed . Not the best class or easiest , but what Comp or Modified Production was "typical ". So this leads me into the idea I posted earlier in this thread , take .5 {1/2 a second } off the "index system " and run it for a full year , -25 under will represent -75 under but all the PI BS will be gone . No more putting weight in , lifting too early , de-tuning to slow it down , best light and best run wins.....like it used to be .
     
  9. Joey arrowsmith

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    Exactly what my dad and I have been saying. Let’s try it for a year, run your car!! The fastest car doesn’t guarantee the win and I honestly believe more people (fans) would pay attention and enjoy the multiple runs to the finish line vs clicking it off or dumping. No one new is coming to comp to go racing. How many young 20-30 year olds are building cars to come race comp? Trying it for a year wouldn’t hurt a thing and it just might peak people’s interest when they see a class they can run all out in
     
  10. SmileyRacing

    SmileyRacing Well-Known Member

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    Some contradicting statements goin on. If before pi came into affect teddy ticel for example would be way down like yourself. In this case he is only down part of what you are down. My point is he should be. All cars on the same class should race off the same index. The problem is the way the mindshaft rule works. Why didn’t I go to houston?? Because I am a pussy that didn’t want to hit his index in 200 foot weather. I got one class to run my turd in and I have to protect my investment. I built a combo no one ran to get my own index. Then they gave everyone their own. Everyone will have their own agenda to why a rule needs change. Mine is fix good air races so we can go and race ( yes to the finish line)
    Clark Smiley
     
  11. Rob Harrison

    Rob Harrison Well-Known Member

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    "Some contradicting statements goin on"......who are you referring to ?
     
  12. SmileyRacing

    SmileyRacing Well-Known Member

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    Not a shot at Joey but he said he would like to see a benefit of the pi. I gave one. Terry is not as far down as he has is. That is a benefit for terry. I don’t agree with it just making a point. I agree with what Joey is saying for the most part. And as far as your take half a second off the index and let everyone race. Absolutely the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Way off point and topic. There has to be a level of equalization when you have different combos racing together. The person index system we race in needs to be refined not reinvented.
    Clark Smiley
     
  13. SmileyRacing

    SmileyRacing Well-Known Member

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    And for the record I hate the pi system but I believe and I say “I” believe that where it went wrong was the index give back. Clark Smiley
     
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  14. Joey arrowsmith

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    No shots taken whatsoever! I asked and you gave.... exactly what I was looking for!
     
  15. 71mavlouisville

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    I switched to Comp because of the PI. Why? For years I have witnessed many racers going to Belle Rose, Houston, Orlando, Gainesville, etc. etc. etc. Any track with a Barometer over 30 and some with a Barometer over 29.7. These racers have taken permanent on Red Lights, either them or in the other lane. Some go 0.1 + on the tree in a slower car, the faster car passes them at 800 ft and they still take permanent! WTF! Hint guy's, if your in a 8 second car and a 6 second car passes you at 800 ft, your not going to come back around them, either you cut a horrible light or you are very slow, LET OFF. If someone in your class is at Epping or Sonoma in the summer, they hit your class 5, your next race is in Topeka or Noble, how are you supposed to compete? Before PI the guy's up north are down 5 before the first race of their season. So, if someone in the country is running your class and races in Div 1,2 and 4, watch out without the PI. That is why the PI was put in place.

    Most Comp cars are bad fast in great air, some are bad fast in good air, few are bad fast in bad air. The cars that are bad fast in bad air love the current system. Stay away from good air tracks. If you have a power adder or run methanol, DA does not affect your combo like it does a NA engine on gas. If we were all running NA engines this would be a much easier proposition.

    Keeping people in Comp is VERY IMPORTANT. Art's idea is a good one. Greg's idea is a good one. Raymond's idea is a good one. We have seen many good idea's on this forum. I think Art is asking how do we get these changes in place? 2019 and 2020 had about 200 active racers. We should be able to vote on these changes and have them implemented.

    My "simple solution's" are thus

    #1 use the number 1 qualifiers amount above or below 60 under to reset the field, example, the number 1 qualifier is 65 under, take 5 off everyones indexes/PI for that race, if the number 1 qualifier is 52 under, add 8 to all indexes/PI, if number 1 is 72 under take 12 off all indexes/PI - leave all other rules in place.

    This doesn't solve the problem of qualifying in bad air and race day in great air, but, those situations are rare and will leave something for us to bitch about in the future.
    We would also love to have a AA/PM at every race so they could go 90 under and take 3 tenths off all the indexes!

    #2 NO permanent or CIC on heads up runs, this should be heads up and all out! Turn the score boards off for those runs, win light only.
     
  16. Joey arrowsmith

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    Too be fair I have seen 3 races this year where the faster car caught and went around the slow car, fast car let’s off but the slow car stayed in it and went right back around the fast car for the win haha. It’s rare but happens. I’ve never thought of your solution #1 before and it’s quite interesting and I like it! Also #2 is spot on.... never understood that because a heads up run should be exactly that.... heads up!
     
  17. SmileyRacing

    SmileyRacing Well-Known Member

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    Ashton I like the setting the index off the number one qualifier idea. Doubt it would ever happen but I like it.
    I can say for a fact that you are way off on your power added comment. Maybe on a methanol burning car but not a gasoline burning car. In bad air I run my shit to the ragged ass edge. Wanna see some pictures of pistons and head gaskets??? Not cause of a bad tune just bad air. My car falls off worse than a super mod with a 260 cubic inch motor at 3300 pounds. And At least you NA guys can run vp fuel all I can run is Sunoco fuels. Not y’all’s fault just making a statement. Clark Smiley
     
  18. Joey arrowsmith

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    Anybody else want to chime in on Ashton’s idea? Pros and cons to it or add anything they would change about it
     
  19. arthodges706

    arthodges706 Active Member

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    Men, Women, fellow competitors,
    Please review back on this site at this time for the past 5 or so years. It’s the same bullshit, all of US yes me included trying to come up with different ideas to create parity. We are not the decision makers, we all need to speak out to powers to be to change the system. Yes if they respond the are going to say, how? Let’s just make it simple snd to the point but please direct your attention to them.
    I think I pretty much know most of you snd we will all agree if it takes them effort they will ignore, so let’s just reach out to them with simple ideas but to sit on this forum and wine to each other will not get it fixed, I would rather watch Housewives.
    Please this month reach out to to NHRA and tell them let’s adjust the system.
    Again Happy Holidays
     
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  20. Rob Harrison

    Rob Harrison Well-Known Member

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    I guess if you think it's the dumbest idea you've ever heard , Clark , {even though someone posted right after my suggestion that he and his Dad thought it was a great idea} taking 1/2 second off the whole index system is simple and worth a try . Dumb or whatever you want to call it , it's worth a "try" , no worse than doing nothing.....
     

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