Ideal number 3001 to save NHRA Pro Stock

Discussion in 'The Comp Buzz' started by Greg Hogue, Oct 16, 2014.

  1. Greg Hogue

    Greg Hogue Member

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    ok this is a two part deal
    First Restricts the RPM limit to 10,500 , and 1.000 valve lift .
    this is self explanatory and equals out the field

    Second , make more appeal for the fans

    1. bring in the Australian Pro Stock formula with a sustainable weight break
    400 cid , at 2000 lbs

    maybe fuel injection
     
  2. Rob Harrison

    Rob Harrison Well-Known Member

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    I think you are going to see the 10,500 rev limit implemented , all other forms of motorsport have rev limits . Forget about the valve lift limit , all the cylinder head development has been done at the lift they are running , HP would be hurt significantly let alone the tech issue ( Stock Eliminator comes to mind )
    They ( the P/S teams ) may very well increase the HP as they adjust to the 10,500 limit , lower spring pressure , spring material that can operate and last in a non valve float environment , reducing destructive harmonics , to name a few .
     
  3. comp 670

    comp 670 Active Member

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    Unfortunately the top teams will let the class die before they agree to a rev limit. They had a meeting early this year with all the teams asking what to do to increase car counts. All but two teams admitted there is a problem in PS but none agreed to make any changes.

    It needs to happen but even just implementing a rev limit makes all the top teams combos junk. They are so finely engineered that they would have to build all new heads, intakes, headers, carbs, etc... Yes, they "could" run what they have now but it would not be optimum and in PS they strive for perfect...

    I give the class two years and it will be gone and replaced by Pro Mod. I hope I'm wrong.
     
  4. Terry Spargo

    Terry Spargo Member

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    Would be a shame to see PS disappear, something has to be done by its members soon to keep it alive. I received a questionnaire earlier today requesting input on creating TS/TD as a National Championship. I don't know about that, as Comp has to live on. I don't want to take my Biondo 450out of the trailer cabinet where it's be resting for years.
     
  5. Greg Hogue

    Greg Hogue Member

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    when the field is 10 or 12 cars then they might act. but I think NHRA wants Pro Stock gone, and comp not far behind.

    The two or three top teams are just as guilty of killing Pro Stock as the money and NHRA shutting out any semblance of TV time.


    time for the anyone in Pro Stock to unload their parts , maybe the other 14 or 15 Pro Stock people could just not enter Pomona with out some for of limit
     
    #5 Greg Hogue, Oct 16, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2014
  6. Mark Lelchook

    Mark Lelchook Member

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    The colder weather is upon us.

    Mark Lelchook
    D/ED F/SA
     
  7. Rob Harrison

    Rob Harrison Well-Known Member

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    " It needs to happen but even just implementing a rev limit makes all the top teams combos junk. They are so finely engineered that they would have to build all new heads, intakes, headers, carbs, etc... Yes, they "could" run what they have now but it would not be optimum and in PS they strive for perfect..."

    Is this not what they do now , Mark , continually refine the function of how they make HP , the focus would be in a different range , but not unlike what they do now......just a little different......
     
  8. rognelson777

    rognelson777 Active Member

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    Reading all the comments and looking back to when I really was enthralled with prostock, would love to race one then and why my interest has dwindled. I went back to a period that I think was the best for prostock, around 1983. It was dominated by 4 teams Shepard , Glidden, Warren Johnson and Iaconio, they were the only winners in 1983 but why was it so good? There were only about 12 races with the pros and only had 1 in my area, Englishtown. No same day TV, So if you wanted to see a national event, you had to go there. Also, a pit pass was truly access to the cars and drivers, not roped off, covered up cars like today. Take a young fan to the track today and maybe you get an autograph. Use to hang around after all runs complete for 2 reasons, avoid traffic but really so you could many times spend time with drivers and check out their cars, Most semifinalists and finalists were there late packing up or doing repairs. You could get up close to your hero, Iaconio by the way, they were not rushing out and getting on a plane.
    Racers did not have to go to 24 races, they could test or match race at a local track, Many times at Atco for the prostocks because prep was different at all tracks, not the Homogenized prep at national events of today.

    How to fix it???? Just wanted to vent.....
     
  9. AdamDrzayich

    AdamDrzayich New Member

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    I've heard there are going to be some pretty decent changes coming with an announcement being made at or around PRI. It won't make the printed rule book but will be added later. I whole heartedly agree with the valve lift limit and RPM limit. It won't "fix" the class but it will bring some more cars out of the woodwork if you can replace the valves at the same interval as rods and pistons. Not to mention added savings in the valve spring department. With the economy and the racing industry the way it is today (technology being purchased more than developed by individual teams), I don't think anything will fix the class. It's just a way we can just hold onto it a little longer.
     
  10. Rob Harrison

    Rob Harrison Well-Known Member

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    Catch the video on Competition Plus , with Tony Christian , he speaks directly to the state of P/S and Comp . Modified Eliminator and Pro Stock evolving into what they are today......" Competition Eliminator is out of control and it takes $3 to $4 million a year to run a Pro Stock car "

    If you analyze the path of progress or digression , I think they have to put some limits in place ( if that will save it , who knows ) but they have to do something , if for no other reason than to get full fields .

    The days of Lee Shepherd , Bob Glidden , dry hops ,banging gears , wheelstands , 150 Comp cars at Indy , a far cry from what is now left.......
     
  11. comp 670

    comp 670 Active Member

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    If a RPM limit is made guys like me can keep trying because we can run a engine 5 or 6 races without having to rebuild it... Right now a engine is lucky to go two races without a rebuild.

    Yes, the top teams and teams with big money will still outrun the little guy. But at least the little guy can keep trying. Right now the little guy is just being pushed away. I know of at least 10 people who want to run PS, they have fairly good budgets too but will not do it until the cost is brought down at least a little.

    SOMETHING has to change or the class WILL die.
     
  12. comp 670

    comp 670 Active Member

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    I'm not going to argue with you. You are right I am wrong. Have a nice day.
     
  13. Greg Hogue

    Greg Hogue Member

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    give Pro Stock a little verity . Run the 2000 lbs 400 cid FI cars heads up with the current cars
     
  14. Greg Hogue

    Greg Hogue Member

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    what your not getting , unless your around several teams, is if you don't have anyone else to race it doesn't matter how good your program is


    The cost of turning a motor 10,800 or 11.200 vs 10,500 has priced the class out of competitors

    All classes have evolving rules , in Pro Stock a few years ago they stopped exotic materials, set minimum weights on rods and intake valves , this is just one more attempt at a safety net.



    I want to see more people like Mark able to race
     
  15. Jeremy Tanksley

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    Who ever said other teams have figured it out per se? Looking at how much is spent patching blown up motors or changing run cycled parts to prevent blowups you'd think none of them have it figured out.

    The question as of late has been about how to increase participation. According to many that have, or still do, campaign competitive pro stock entries, an rpm limit is the answer to solve a lot of the problems with the category. Nothing about the morals involved has ever been brought into question.
     
    #15 Jeremy Tanksley, Oct 17, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2014
  16. comp 670

    comp 670 Active Member

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    THIS.......^^^^^^

    All the top teams have done is decide its ok to have to rebuild a engine after every other race.... A current top 5 PS engine is a hand grenade with the pin falling out.

    I have lived my life to run PS, and watched lots of races over the years. I'd always roam the PS pits from 6 in the morning till the lights went out. One thing I have noticed just in the last two years is the top teams switching engines between runs is now a common deal. Sometimes two or three times a day during elims.. You used to never see that unless it was a engine being used in multiple cars to qualify before they made a rule against that. Now after a race most teams have wounded bullets lined up like cordwood!

    Last year at one of the races a top three team was pitted across from us. We watched them go thru 4 engines during qualifying and then 2 more during elims. This was between two cars.. I asked one of the crew guys if they were testing stuff and he said no, this was common that they break this often.. He said usually its only one or two a race but still.. They EXPECT them to break.

    For those saying I'm trying to make rules that will make my junk competitive sorry... I am not that dumb to think if a RPM rule was made tomorrow that I could head to Vegas in a few weeks and kick butt. I KNOW the top teams will still outspend me and out think me. I will still be lucky to qualify and be a first round duck. All I am trying to do is help the class survive. I think even the top teams with all their money would love to have a engine last 5 or 6 races... Just my opinion.
     
  17. Greg Hogue

    Greg Hogue Member

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    so now we have two guys currently running in Pro stock, in this thread.

    I know there are a lot of politics involved, but let ask what would you do. what would you like to see


    and to all of us racers what would bring fans to the class ,


    Pro Stock is what all comp racers aspire to whether its become a reality , we all go to the line for at least one round of Pro Stock.


    What about a outside series sponsor that stays arms length from NHRA
     
  18. clevo351

    clevo351 Member

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    Australian ProStock is the same at the moment, the guys with the big money are the top qualifiers. Its a rich mans class the top teams have at least 2 to 3 engines.Keep a eye out what happens next week here in Sydney at the Nationals.Anyone want to guess who is going to top qualify? ;)
     
  19. Jack Issi

    Jack Issi Member

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  20. SS/BS

    SS/BS New Member

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    Please try not to dismiss the comments below just because I don't race Comp.

    I'm a superstock guy, who has always loved comp and pro stock. I run a Ford, and have discovered just how difficult it is to run one in SS modified, never mind Comp Eliminator. Nearly all of the fastest modified cars have Chevrolet power. I think that the same can be said for most V6 and V8 NA comp cars.

    There is so much R&D and parts availability for the GM combinations, that it's almost pointless to run anything else. There's pretty much one head that I can use to get in the game, and it's days are numbered. Ford appears to be unconcerned about providing another Windsor-based push rod head, and has all along seemed to care little about manufacturing drag-race specific heads. It's NASCAR that has their interest, and always has, despite the fact that in recent years Ford has invested heavily in their stock and superstock OHC Cobra Jet programs.

    From my point of view, the whole NHRA pro scene has devolved into a homogenous mess. Chevrolet is at the forefront again in Pro Stock, with lots of R&D and corporate support paving the way for soon-to-be all Chevy fields.

    Kudos to GM, but is anyone at NHRA concerned about variety? Do they believe that everyone wants to see one GM powered car after another, after another, after another going down track? Would it be better to see all manufacturers represented in greater numbers? I would think so. I do like the GM stuff, and respect what has been done with the brand, but, I also like the Mopar stuff, and certainly the Ford stuff.

    The appeal of competition arguably has more to do with fans rooting for a specific manufacturer, than how drivers and car/team owners measure themselves against one another. Chevy versus Ford, Ford versus Mopar. Camaro versus Mustang. Mustang versus Challenger. I may be wrong, but this is how I've always viewed racing, as have most people I know. Watching the same manufacturer and car-model going down track, one after the other, is boring at best.

    Is there a solution? Maybe. How about making pro stock power consistent with the current engine offerings used for NASCAR? All three manufacturers (and, yes, Toyota too) have always seemed to support NASCAR over NHRA. If the pro stockers were limited to 400 CID, and NHRA worked in collaboration not only with the manufacturers but NASCAR too, then Pro Stock could become interesting again. Parts and R&D would be far more readily available, and all manufacturers could be represented.

    At the very least, it makes fiscal sense for everyone involved. And, the fans may even be able to enjoy some variety at last.

    Just a thought......

    Steve
     

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