INPUT REQUESTED FROM ALL CURRENT, RETURNING & PROSPECTIVE COMP RACERS

Discussion in 'The Comp Buzz' started by Frank Aragona Jr., Mar 9, 2017.

  1. boostedf22c

    boostedf22c Active Member

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    How about no CIC, no personal, no permanent and then deal with it at the end of the year. Let everyone hang it out and see what everyone has?? Just a thought.
     
  2. Troy Galbraith

    Troy Galbraith New Member

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    Frank A... while I very much appreciate your, the NHRA, and the SRAC's efforts in trying to boost car counts... It's time to race... Rule revisions/ideas are for the off season. All I ask is those racers who told you and other reps directly they would race more comp with PI's in effect, would start racing comp with PI's in effect, would race comp more with no year end PI adjustments who don't have more entries in 2017 then they did in 2016 that you will throw their suggestions aside next December when it's time to consider changes for 2018. Show up or shut up boys and girls!

    Troy Galbraith
     
    #62 Troy Galbraith, Mar 10, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2017
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  3. Clint Neff

    Clint Neff Well-Known Member

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    Exactly!!!!.
     
  4. BenHolt

    BenHolt Member

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    I know that we probably don't affect the percentages much, but we are young, and are new to comp. So there's at least one car that helps the problem. And I will say that, personal index system or not, we will be racing comp in 2017 and beyond. Where else are we going to race a 4 cylinder naturally aspirated dragster?!? Hahaha.

    We trust, maybe to a fault, that the rule makers and the competition committees have not only the racers, but the organization's, best interests in mind. I know I want nothing to do with making the rules for a national organization.

    As far as the PI and eliminations is concerned, I think if two cars of the same class meet in elims, it should be heads up. What's the point of having separate classes if every car has it's own index all the time? We had to run Mr. Ackerman first round at Norwalk last year. I believe at that time he had 6-7 personal so far, but our index was the same when we lined up next to him. He was faster than us, and that's all that matters. We went home and tried to make our junk faster.

    This is a good class, we love it, and we're not going anywhere.

    Ben Holt
    Head grunt
    3038 F/D
     
  5. Backyard Bandit

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    This is exactly what I brought up a few years ago. My posts about heads up racing got ignored. When we started racing Comp we thought it was heads up racing. We worked really hard to make our car faster. When we finally did that, we realized that Comp is just a game and not heads up at all. Everyone is playing the qualifying ladder to race a slow car and dumping at the finish line to save index. This class has become as close to shoe polish racing as it could be. That's why we started racing Top Dragster. It seemed only logical. At least now when we qualify high, we get a sense of accomplishment. We can run as fast or as slow as we want and still win rounds. And the rules are a lot simpler. This is my opinion and feel free to disagree or not.
     
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  6. Frank Aragona Jr.

    Frank Aragona Jr. Active Member

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    Troy & Clint,
    I just wanted to be clear that I never said anything about making changes during the year and NHRA has always told us that they will not do that. Unfortunately we cannot wait until December to talk about changes. It takes more time than you think and in December IF (and I STRESS IF so nobody gets the idea that I am saying there WILL be changes) the decisions have already been made.
    All this communication is great and the racer who called me can pretty much see now that the majority feeling seems to be to leave it as is on this one. I hope he is like the rest of us and will continue to race regardless.
     
  7. Frank Aragona Jr.

    Frank Aragona Jr. Active Member

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    Roger, no offense but I am pretty sure you guys are alone with this idea!
     
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  8. Frank Aragona Jr.

    Frank Aragona Jr. Active Member

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  9. Frank Aragona Jr.

    Frank Aragona Jr. Active Member

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    Bob,
    You can see it how you wish but Comp is handicap heads up racing, always has been and I am pretty sure always will be. No one I have ever know has mistaken that and I've been around it all my life.
     
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  10. Clint Neff

    Clint Neff Well-Known Member

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    Oh for sure! Thanks for bringing this topic in!
     
  11. DE3

    DE3 Active Member

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    I'm a little confused by your statement here Bob. So you get a sense of accomplishment by qualifying well in TD, a class that actually IS shoe polish racing, where you CAN lose for going too fast(breakout), and actually have a qualifying run DQ'd for going too fast(under 6.00), but not in Comp?
     
    #71 DE3, Mar 11, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2017
  12. Backyard Bandit

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    Don, you would be dq'd in Comp for going faster than 6 flat. Our chassis cert is only good to 6 flat. If you go too much faster than your index in Comp, you get penalized forever! At least in Top Dragster, or any other bracket race, you start fresh next race. I have nothing against the Comp Racers, we have met a lot of nice people racing in Comp and had a lot of fun. I just think it's going in the wrong direction.
     
  13. DE3

    DE3 Active Member

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    Below 6.00 is not an automatic DQ in Comp or cars like AA/AM, AA/AT, H/D, and Pro Mods would not be allowed to run it. That would be a certification issue. If you run a class with the potential to be quicker than 6.00, you'd have the correct cert for it.
     
  14. ken reich

    ken reich Member

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    Why not do a poll , i felt most "active racers were for it" lets find out!!!!
     
  15. Andrew Holt

    Andrew Holt New Member

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    Hi. To chime in on the original topic.

    Heads up in a class should be heads up. I think the most logical way to race would be that both cars would run off the slower of the two indexes.
    Example:
    1...Me in F/D. I have no personal index (Yet!). I run against another guy with no personal. = Both cars run off the F/D natural index heads up.
    2...Me in F/D. I have no personal index. My opponent has a personal index. = Both cars run off the F/D natural index heads up.
    3...Me in the near future getting my s**t running fast. I have a personal index in F/D. My opponent has a faster personal index than me = Both cars run off the SLOWER personal index heads up.

    On a side note: After thinking about the personal index alot, its really not a terrible deal, considering the push to increase the car count in comp.

    Ill give myself as an example (although... I could really care less. Me and my brother love Comp and would race it regardless of the personal index or not). This will be my third year racing Comp. We don't have a ton of money... so we have traded spending alot of money for a competitive race car immediately vs. spending literally thousands of hours building all our own stuff (and still spending an uncomfortably large amount of money for us :)). It is a steady progression that hopefully will payoff in a competitive race car in the near future. But in the end of the day... What drives me and my brother is our quest to be competitive... to line up against the best in the biz and give them a good race. Knowing you have no chance is not that fun and that is what motivates us to constantly improve and work on our stuff. And when we get to that point... we will be motivated to improve to the point to win rounds consistently and win races.

    So... assuming that the rule stays the same and the personal index for a driver in a specific class never resets... the personal index acts an incentive to new/up-and-coming/budget racers in Comp. It gives a 1/10sec buffer between someone who has raced in comp for years and years and has a very refined combination... and someone who is just starting out. Its probably not going to move a new racer from first-round fodder to race winner... but it might make his first round loss alittle more exciting. Its not exactly fair to the racers who have worked very hard and spent tons of money refining their combos, but without a class full of cars to race, their effort is wasted. A tenth.. that once its used up is done... is not a terrible incentive...especially given the economic pressures on racing... and the fact that my generation is not the mechanically savy/tinkering/making stuff from scratch of other generations. It gives someone a little bonus to join us in Comp... even if they pick a tough class (like F/D!). And once that personal buffer is used up... well.. now you're a Comp veteran and its time to but your stuff back on the dyno!

    Has it made a difference in us investing in our Comp car. No. Will it incentivize others... and make it alittle more fun for some of the people still working out their stuff. Time will tell.... and it will take time (it took us 3 years to build our car).

    But it really hasn't changed much (especially once they start qualifying cars based on their personal index). A really fast car with index to give + a good driver (Doug Doll for example)... will win most of the rounds and win alot of races. And if your not that.. you have to work very hard to get better to beat those guys. The challenge.... and seeing how your opponents adapt to that challenge is what makes this class F'n awesome.
     
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  16. Backyard Bandit

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    Don, you missed my point about qualifying well in Top Dragster. We have 125 cu.in. and can run with supercharged or nitrous assisted big block dragsters! That is an accomplishment. I also doubt we would be quicker than 6.00.
     
  17. ken reich

    ken reich Member

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    As the poll shows- the majority feels the heads up should be changed, not sure how you saw it otherwise,?
     
  18. DE3

    DE3 Active Member

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    Bob, your statement did not include doing it with 125" with a turbo. You merely said qualifying near the top. Most of those cars with power adders could run just as quick if they so choose. Take a look at some of the D3 qualifying sheets. At the end of the day, it's still a bracket race.
     
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  19. Frank Aragona Jr.

    Frank Aragona Jr. Active Member

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    Ken,
    The poll does not match the question I asked to begin this tread which is;

    As the current CIC rules are now, when 2 cars of the same class meet in eliminations all CIC is discounted and they race off the class index heads up.

    For example if the two cars were AA/AT and met in the 2nd round of eliminations where the class index is 6.87 and neither took any CIC in the first round but one of the drivers already had an established personal index for himself of 6.77 and the other did not, the 2nd round race between them would have them heads up off the 6.87.

    Some racers would like to see the SRAC bring this up for NHRA to consider changing it to where the heads up rule would not be used in this instance but if both racers did not have a personal index it would remain as is.


    The poll posted is asking if you would rather no permanent hits on a heads up run or leave as is.
     
  20. cutta

    cutta Member

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    I don't know if I'm allowed to comment but:
    Same class races should be heads up.

    I love the idea above. Further, I think it would be smart to have an org/group similar to Pro Mod's "RPM" group that could also negotiate with other 1/4mile organizations or tracks for that matter to schedule and run races outside of the NHRA. This would allow you to partner with Stock/Super Stock associations, pair with successful bracket racing series, and orgs such as the NMCA. I'm sure there are disadvantages but having a little independence such that Comp can operate outside of the NHRA could be beneficial. But I definitely think if you can figure out a way to make sure NHRA alone isn't solely responsible for Comp's pay structure, that would be really beneficial.

    In regards to me running Comp, I'm years away. All the expensive things in life keep coming one after the other. Student loans, now getting married. All my plans just keep getting pushed further back. So until those things settle out, I'll be bracket racing locally. I'll say this too, for me, someone who has wanted to race in Comp/Super Stock for most of his life, its very disappointing to feel the negativity that sometimes surrounds the class. I hear more complaints than resolutions. Its disappointing to think that when I finally have a car ready for Comp or Super Stock that neither of these classes may exist. There aren't very many other alternatives either. Where else can you run a NA inline 5 cylinder viper engine?

    My .02 whether qualified or not
     
    #80 cutta, Mar 13, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2017

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