Limiting the number of classes you can claim in a year???

Discussion in 'The Comp Buzz' started by Will Hanna, Jan 23, 2006.

  1. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna Administrator

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    i'm not knocking butner/taylor here, because they're just doing what's within their means, but if phil's right and they have the ammo to run 18 different classes, isn't that a little crazy? another words, to hell with the index, just get to the stripe first, we'll worry about index next week...meanwhile someone's x/sm went from being competitive to back of the pack.

    i don't think when they came up with the cic system they had in mind someone having 18 combo's at their disposal, or even 9 or 10.

    i think only allowing a driver to claim 2 or 3 classes for a year would still be pretty liberal. some combinations are easier to jump classes than others.

    i think this will help the cost of trying to run competitive. will a motor from xyz motors cost any less? no, but it doesn't take 4 different motors, 4 trans, etc, etc to run for top five, top ten or a div championship. otherwise, the guys who can't afford to have 5+ combo's at their disposal will have to deal with the wake of the guys who do.

    my .02
     
  2. Shane Heckel

    Shane Heckel Active Member

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    That would be the smart thing to do but doubtful............

    I think that its been purposed to NHRA and Len a # of times but to no prevail.Jumping of classes is a HUGE problem on the little guys who cant compete or will not spend the $$$$$ on 18 classes.I have no problem cars that can change classes with weight or a carb change ,but i can see this getting out of hand.To make it more fair to most people in comp,I would like to see the classes per year maxed out to 2 per year.I think that it would make it a little more fair on the dragster and roadster guys who have nowhere to go..............and make people think twice about .70 under blast in a class that they "might" consider getting out of to go on to the next!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
    #2 Shane Heckel, Jan 23, 2006
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2006
  3. Baltered5266

    Baltered5266 Member

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    I agree with Shane, 2 classes max would help protect the smaller guys in comp. With our B/A combination we don't have any other class to go to unless we stick an automatic trans in the car. The idea that these guys will show up to a mindshaft race, kill the index, and then swap classes next week is outrageous. I guess they can win their championships for a year or two or at least until they are the only ones out there competiting. Hmmmm......
     
  4. ATC Racing

    ATC Racing Member

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    See Personal Index System thread!
    Picture if you will....submited for your approval..

    A racer not effected by the malicious bashing of his index by another racer with the intention of moving on to another class or protection of championship hopes by someone loaning a motor to another racer for index bashing purposes. Thats right guys ....someone else is in charge of value of your operation...always!!
    I know,Its suppose to be expensive, right. not always fair..just because his pockets are deeper he shouldn't be penalized. Its all fair sure because there is no rule to keep it from being another way OTHER than "RACING" To win a championship!!
    Under a personal index system you enter a class governed by your own performance. So many racers have left the sport because of this practice or just because of accidental index abuse. So many good cars still would be hammering on a combination becoming competitive.just in a slightly longer time than a guy with a huge budget and a cylinder head guy on the payroll. but he is no longer competitive because the index is no longer good.....next week.
    Points and the index follow the driver...ok..so he can still bounce classes if he hammered his index....just Fred Racer in Denver isn't penialized when someone in Houstons -1000 ft. gimmie horsepower divisional sends him looking to snowmobiling instead of Drag Racing.
    Indexes return to 95% of year starting index so the smashers can start the year with near same competitive advantages with the progressive nature of the sport still intact.
    Just give someone good parts and a little time and they will become competitive and happy about their investment and car counts will skyrocket......if thats what we all want??? .....Indy 125+cars again...WOW You have just entered the twilight zone!

    "Just my opinion......I could be wrong".....Dennis Miller

    Clack
     
  5. Will Hanna

    Will Hanna Administrator

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    scary math

    here's some scary math....

    comp racers claim their best 3 out of the first six nationals, 5 out of their first 8 divisionals....so 14 races is a 'full' schedule.

    they got more classes than races....:eek:

    not picking on butner/taylor here, but geez...limits sound good. personal cic even better.

    so you got a racer that wants to 'graduate' from sc/sg....

    with some rules to bring the cost of running comp back into reason, that racer might choose comp over top sportsman/ top dragster
     
  6. Phil Burgess

    Phil Burgess New Member

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    Just to clarify, Taylor/Butner purchased a third car, the ex-Connolly PS Cavalier, to run in some altered classes.

    They can't run that many with the Super Mod Cav/Grand Am cars.
     
  7. JEFF GILLETTE

    JEFF GILLETTE Member

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    I have suggested ;
    (1)limiting the # of classes to 2 per year .
    (2) giving every class back index (.05) each year-total cost --- zero!!!! seems to fall on deaf ears.
    The racers that have 1 engine/car are stuck with the damage from the multi car/engine racers.

    I wish I had 4 or 5 $55000 small blocks !!!
     
  8. kmcdowell352

    kmcdowell352 New Member

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    The Super Mods can run 18 classes with different motor and transmission combo's with a single chassis. There needs to be some type of rule to limit the amount of times one can switch classes, but to what number I really don't know. The teams that can switch cars/motors have the upper hand in most cases.
     
  9. Mark Forbes

    Mark Forbes Member

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    Couple of years back at the Denver Divisional, former comp racer John Maretuk (sp?) was passing out a outline describing the same topic. The constant question was how to financial support or track the index for each racer.

    I agree with Jeff.

    2 class changes per year.
     
  10. Rick Troutner

    Rick Troutner Member

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    limiting the amount of class changes would work better. I brought this up on another board and think it is worth discussing here. Hold Indexes at a Division level and it would even out time of year better and make a undesireable class work better at altitude and in hot wearther. It would also help with inconsistancey on tech at Division level. If some divisions do not do an in depth inspection it does not hurt divisions that do. Even though the rules say to, it does not mean it is done equaly. Some other things along with Divisional indexes could also change like the cap on perminate CIC if you hit it for ten the it drops Monday in that division by ten. This will make racers want those who do not tech well to start enforcing the inspections. There will be no reason to have end of the year give me's on the indexes either.
     
  11. Gil Anderson

    Gil Anderson New Member

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    Food for thought...What if there was only allowed one class per year? I'm sure people would race smarter with regards to preserving their indexes since they are committed to running one class.

    The other thought that isn't brought up is the return on investment. Due to returns on investment, from lack of purse increases, it doesn't allow for people to diversify accross the board. In addition, it doesen't allow and incourage others to come to the class-something that is needed for the growth of the class.
     
  12. Phil Burgess

    Phil Burgess New Member

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    There's also the issue of single-car teams with more than one car that run the same engine -- i.e., Treadwell, Jerry Arnold, A-A-H -- in dragsters and roadsters, or guys who have a fast car that might not do well at divisional tracks but would excel on the national event tracks.

    Personally, I like to see the variety and the gamesmanship of finding a soft index or swapping between cars as long as someone's not just out there destroying indexes wantonly and purposefully.

    There's a whole lot more to this than restricting the number of classes.
     
  13. Greenlight

    Greenlight Member

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    How about if the points that a driver earns is for one class per year?

    So, if you run one class and earn 275 points and decide to change classes in the middle of the year you still have the 275 points.

    In the new class you have 0 points. As you race the remainder of the year if your points in the new class become greater than 275, the new class/points are considered for National/Divisional standings.

    Let's face it, the guys who are jumping into 5 different classes a year are primarily chasing points and secondarily trying to win the event.

    This would prevent the guys with the REALLY BIG $$$$$ from having a huge advantage over the guys who are REALLY GOOD drivers and can only afford to run the same class for 10 years in a row.

    Then, to throw those guys a bone, go back to the Pro Ladder. Many people will complain about the Pro Ladder, but the cars with the easier (note I didn't say easy) indexes will begin to fall closer in line with the median.

    In my opinion (don't shoot me it's just MY opinion) the guys who qualify in the last 6 or 8 positions at a National Event are just hoping to qualify and know in their hearts that they likely will not win the race ( I know this because I've been there) and the guys in the middle of the pack know that they have an outside chance of winning if they get a few breaks. The big disadvantage in the Pro Ladder is to the last 6 or 8 guys who were happy just to be there in the first place. This system gives a first round break to the guys who work the hardest (and usually spend the most $$$) to get to the top positions. It would also eliminate the qualifying games that are played to jockey for the #8 qualifying position and the fans (who are just as important to the sport as the racers) would get a better show.

    In the end the 80 / 20 rule still holds. 80% of the races are won by 20% of the drivers.

    I welcome a postive constructive discussion on this matter.
     
    #13 Greenlight, Jan 24, 2006
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2006
  14. Rick Troutner

    Rick Troutner Member

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    Thought of this and think it may be helpful as far as econo classes being stuck with a whole new car or motor to change classes. how would this work.

    Make an option to econo based on 3 speed automatic, any carb combination or FI with a external oil system and any NHRA approved inline head with more liberal modifcations.

    Make the current econo classes stay the same but take them back to a wet sump oil system, 2 speed automatic and keep the current carb restriction.. This could be done at reasonable cost and give some flexiblity to these classes. Econo has lost about any purity and safety as an entery level class.
     
  15. ATC Racing

    ATC Racing Member

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    I like Greenlight's idea about points ramifications on class hopping. but it might be a little harsh. Maybe a 2-3 class jumps and then no more points earned. If a guy can't win in three classes, then he's just beating up on everyone elses fun.This still does not promote class growth or keeping people in this class due to the current index system which can change the value of someones investment overnight.
    Computers are smart enough to keep up with changing indexs for single cars. A simple program I'm sure .Tech departments\racers keep up with record runs and qualifing. Every run is published for everyone to see. Keeping track will be the easist thing.
    A self governing system has no one to blame for the value of your investment but yourself. heck even NHRA is off the complainers list.

    Will, Great site! But if they ever implement this type of system.
    The TA\FC is gone buddy. Can you still drive a full tree?


    Clack
     

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