The "Under Average"

Discussion in 'The Comp Buzz' started by Rob Harrison, Jun 4, 2010.

  1. craig schuck

    craig schuck Active Member

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    Rick, im gonna go even further back.... When i ran .601 under and took a hit for 5... that hurt! I have seen a lot of stuff and i am stupid enough to keep racing no matter what happens, but i know a lot of people that are staying home and a nickel might get some of them out of the garage.
     
  2. C Tanksley

    C Tanksley New Member

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    Bad air don`t hurt the turbo cars like the rest of us .If we hit the index in a mindshaft race and can`t run but .50 under at 2500 ft don`t waste the money to tow 500 miles to run a turbo car first round that can run .60 under.Years ago there was no turbo cars . We might just build a turbo car .We might not know anything about a turbo but we will find out and race the hell out of it .
     
    #142 C Tanksley, Jul 16, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2010
  3. Rick Troutner

    Rick Troutner Member

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    I also talked to a comp racer who has been sitting out and is looking at SS as they way to go. I think he still has a combo but won't waste the money to travel and be uncompetitive at 50 under. I also know some sitting out building new stuff as money trickles in. They are out there.

    Power added classes are not fitting in well like Charlie said. Not sure how to blend them in. Maybe a restrictor plate for altitude.
     
  4. Brian Landies

    Brian Landies Active Member

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    What classes are "non 60 under"? No one has run .60 under in B/T this year... 5 back would make that class 8.75. Which would mean depalma could go 60 under that index missing 2 cylinders. No one has gone .60 under in A/SM either.. I bet it would be great for the rest of comp if Pritchett and Hedlund got five back. Pretty sure we havent seen a B/SR go .60 under yet this year either... But of course giving Martel index back would help the little guy with no money.

    The truth is some of these indexes are 70 under in the mineshaft and cant fall out of a tree in the heat and thats why they are staying home. 3000 lbs a single 750 and a converter would make me want index back too in July.

    This has to be a joke by now. Think about it, if the 75 under guys got to run flat out in the mineshaft without fear of hitting their index, then they would be 60 under in the heat without fear of hitting their index and the guys who currently have no shot would still have no shot.

    That all being said, my big bro told me what his source said and I'm not worried about this bull anyhow
     
  5. craig schuck

    craig schuck Active Member

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    Brian, i was being vague and offering a suggestion but im sure it wont work for everyone. If i were to offer more info on my suggestion i would say that if a class has not been run this year then look back to the last time it was run... and if the class was more than 60 under than i guess they dont get five back. Your examples for certain index's are good but Depalma, Hedlund and Pritchett can probably find a class to run 70 under already.
     
  6. Rob Harrison

    Rob Harrison Well-Known Member

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    If giving 5 back to the hit classes, or the non -60 under classes, will bring cars back, as Craig is referring to, (worked before) it is a simple solution.

    If knocking all the fast car's indexes back to -50 under and keep them there by one for one index hitting, will bring cars back, then that is what has to be done. I'm not so sure the engine builder's will like it, older stuff will get the job done, why would you buy new higher HP? But this is not about that, level playing field and get everyone back to the races, make it more of a driver's winning platform, reduce the performance dominance issue, more of a Top Sportsman Comp. Definitely take care of the new class index problem, you might win a race going -65 under, but you are Joe Average Monday morning.

    Not exactly my idea of Comp, but if this brings everyone back to the track, it's better than no Comp. We must rocks in our heads to do what we did.
     
  7. craig schuck

    craig schuck Active Member

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    Rob, I dont agree with taking index away from classes that have been around forever.... but, some of the new classes that have ridiculous index's could use a tune-up. A long, long time ago those classes would have been chopped up quick when we took 5 for anything over 60 under. Not so today. With the index system in its current form the 80 under guy could run 69 under at four consecutive races before he is adjusted back to the 60 under mark. I know im way off the topic but the over under average thing has me thinking about past changes to the index system. Seems to me like one for one hits should be reestablished.
     
  8. PeteAdams

    PeteAdams New Member

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    Boy I would hate to be you significant other husband/wife what ever u Canucks are into, who knows. Simply because I know it in my heart, that u are not really so unable to see the true logic in this argument... But that you are just so dead set in your convictions that u just refuse to acknowledge that fast is fast, even in a world of slow cars. Adding index is just a lure to pull people in but all to quickly they will dig thier own graves by cashing in that index in an attempt to compete with the top half of the feild... Because no matter how much index u dish out there will always be the top and bottom of a ladder... No????

    Who said just making all classes fiddy under. I simply reversed the proposed add a nickle to remove that same nickle... Which in that particular situation would make u a 60 under car instead of a 65 car (still respectively fast compared to us fiddy cars). Which in all reality would be doing you a favor. You could bulb it all you wanted, run it out, sleep on the tree , what ever and not pay a fine come Monday:D.....
     
  9. Brian Landies

    Brian Landies Active Member

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    Just for fun I went back and looked at a few races from 2000 - the year they gave index back.

    Sonoma:

    Comp 2000 - 31 cars
    Comp 2010 - 23 cars

    Pro Stock 2000 - 27 cars
    Pro Stock 2010 - 19 cars

    Houston:

    Comp 2000 - 34 cars
    Comp 2010 - 35 cars

    Pro Stock 2000 - 36 cars
    Pro Stock 2010 - 26 cars

    Chicago:

    Comp 2000 - 43 cars
    Comp 2010 - 35 cars

    Pro Stock 2000 - 36 cars
    Pro Stock 2010 - 26 cars

    E-Town:

    Comp 2000 - 43 cars
    Comp 2010 - 34 cars

    Pro Stock 2000 - 32 cars
    Pro Stock 2010 - 23 cars

    Looks like more of a money thing to me than an index thing. But they could always start giving Erica Enders a tenth of a second headstart to make sure she keeps showing up........
     
  10. 377 D/A

    377 D/A Member

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    i think craig is thinking along the right lines.
    ian
     
  11. Charlie Yannetti

    Charlie Yannetti Well-Known Member

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    I guess I could be considered a liberal in the conservative NHRA world.. but maybe someone should look at the National Records and see how far under the index the record is for the class.. that could be a factor for giving back index.. if it's so far under, no index back.. if it's not so far under, index back.. BUT.. my vote would be for index back.. the fast guys would start chipping away again, and the slow guys MIGHT come out if they feel more competitive.. I know a couple of teams that won't even put the battery back in the car in they can't run -.55.. It's a shame to see good stuff sitting..
     
  12. PeteAdams

    PeteAdams New Member

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    I tried this like 2 years ago and at the time thought it was a good idea. I now realize It was not, but here is a link from my findings based on records from a year and a half ago...

    https://acrobat.com/#d=-CBlNJ2DXCcA-HT6dKu80Q

    Remeber this was back then but if you look at some of the recent records u would truly see what a bad Idea adding back would have been.....
     
    #152 PeteAdams, Jul 17, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2010
  13. Charlie Yannetti

    Charlie Yannetti Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Pete.. and once again I find it strange that we come up with the same thoughts.. I'm just a little behind.. LOL..

    SOOO.. you don't think that -.64 and slower gets some and -.65 and faster don't would work??.. mind you, I am Italian and just might have to be hit in the head two or three times before I get it.. LOL..
     
  14. comp 670

    comp 670 Active Member

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    Our record is at 6.40 on a 7.04 index...That means that you would be giving AA/AT (a turbo class) back some index....

    I can allready hear the screaming now!!!!!:D:p
     
  15. PeteAdams

    PeteAdams New Member

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    I really used to but I realized its not fair to to completely level the playing field by force of a new system. To many people have worked hard and spent fortunes to have an advantage. I'm just saying that they NHRA all ready has it set up that they will eventually be there own demise. The feild would level its self and level it fast if people would stop making deals at the stripe...

    But my more recent argument is if you absolutely must change something, it makes a thousand times more sense to take index away from the fast then to add it to the slow. My logic, if someone has a 55 under car and gets back 5 they now have a 60 under car. They go to a mineshaft/ altitude track, go a few rounds and guess what its a 55 under class again and it only took 1 race.... Still following? So what was the point??? Your better off taking 5 away from the 70 under car making the a 65 under car, they still control their own destiny but are actually 5 hundredths less likely to hit there indexes...

    But really I would love to see them leave it alone, even better go back to a few years ago when there was no limit on index hits but no permanents at corrected tracks..... This is comp eliminator. It seems like some of the only races I see in comp anymore are the ones that I'm involved in... So many people with 65 under cars and they can win shit!!! Either their dead on the tree, or throw it away to save index. Un friggen believable....
     
  16. Div5Fan

    Div5Fan Member

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    If NHRA were to give .05 back to classes that haven't seen a -.600 pass this year, these are the classes that would be eligible for the extra nickel:

    *= A class that hasn't had a competitor go quicker than -.400 in 2010.

    B/D
    E/D
    *G/D
    *I/D
    B/DA
    D/DA
    B/ED
    E/ED
    A/ND
    *AA/AM
    AA/AT
    *AA/AF
    *BB/AF
    *AA/A
    *BB/A
    *CC/A
    *B/T
    PST/A
    C/TA
    A/A
    *G/A
    H/A
    I/A
    E/AA
    C/EA
    *D/EA
    *E/EA
    *H/EA
    *B/SR
    A/SM
    *E/SM
    F/SM
    H/SM
    *E/SMA
    *H/SMA
    *I/SMA
     
    #156 Div5Fan, Jul 17, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2010
  17. TobyG

    TobyG New Member

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    Its a challenge to keep every class happy when hypothesizing...,much less...implementing a change to the index system. Comp is in a catch-22 situation. The class kicks ass, yet numbers are down for some races compared to ten years ago according to Shucks post and some other races its better. Really all classes are down on average, yet when you combine the economy and racers stating they aren't racing due to their index it adds up to NHRA that maybe this class isn't worth the effort.

    Sadly T/S is being introduced to more and more national events. This is a good thing for NHRA...a shit load of cars and no one complaining to them about the current index scenario. I bet T/S is looking more and more appealable to the bean counters compared to Comp.

    The Catch-22 is that numbers on average are down and NHRA constantly hears the Comp racer complain. Understandably, the racers are wanting to improve the class, with a bit of self serving motive behind their cause. Each racer wants their combo to be more competitive and also have the class prosper. I am assuming the last part atleast. In order to get more racers to the track, NHRA probably needs to change the comp index yet when is it that NHRA says that comp isn't worth the BS and just let T/S cars race?

    So where is the compromise? Is there an end? Will the next change just lead to eventual complaining again? Is change good and risking pissing off NHRA or just leave it alone, have low car counts until the economy comes around and the CIC 'fixes' things?

    I can see Jerry Arnold already...posting on this thread...'Just go work on your shit and make it faster, then it doesn't matter"


     
  18. craig schuck

    craig schuck Active Member

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    The numbers are down for sure and its more due to the economy than anything else. The index's are secondary to money but its part of the equation that adds up to racers staying home. Many racers get on here and push their own agenda but if you will see by Tylers post my suggestions does not affect c/ed. As i said before im too stupid to do anything else so i will race comp no matter what happens. So we all must understand that this is the place for discussion about getting comp racers to the track and making comp better.....its better to have this forum loaded with complaints than the NHRA's inbox. I think its good that we get this many ideas on the class and the index system. It means there are a ton of people still interested in the class. Lets figure out how to get them to the race track....
     
  19. Rob Harrison

    Rob Harrison Well-Known Member

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    Could it be as simple as free entry and pay every round?... would that bring cars to more races?...I couldn't help but reflect on this Mission Nat'l Open. It's only got the money attraction card to play, sponsor's products, Barbeque, and some cars that may not go to a points-race are coming. 15 cars so far and climbing.
    Do you think a sponsor for each race, that would cover entries and match the payout purse (to include 1st rd, loser) would get them to the race track? The cost of a Comp car and running it will never be a "for Profit" endeavor, but are most of the sitting cars still healthy enough to run? I'd bet they are, sooo, finding sponsor's for this may be the only hurdle we got.....to bring the cars out to play...a series "associate" sponsor if you will.
     
  20. Brian Landies

    Brian Landies Active Member

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    Now you are talkin' Rob. I know a comp racer who has had his car sitting for several years who said his class was still good but its not worth his time or money now that they took qualifying money away. You used to be able to pay for your hotel rooms at least....
     

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