12 P/S Cars??
- Thread starter Craig Bourgeois
- Start date
The cost of p/s is $40,000 a race you need 1 million to start season just to play how many can do that. My car has sit the last 18 mo.no one want to help any p/s team there no good TV times for this class like TF and FC.It about TV times.
Come on now folks.. you really cant tell me that you don't know what's going on with Pro Stock, or even NHRA...
PS, the PREMIER class in Pro racing, does not have a Force or Schumacher in it, so does not get the proper TV coverage, or sponsor money.. then, NHRA changes most of the rules in the class, making it even more expensive to run.. and if you're lookin', some of the PS teams aren't making the long hauls anymore either..
In my opinion, NHRA is actually hoping for PS, as we know it, to fail.. the RUMOR MILL says that the NEW PS will be along the lines of the factory shoot out deal... IMAGINE THAT!!!
PS, the PREMIER class in Pro racing, does not have a Force or Schumacher in it, so does not get the proper TV coverage, or sponsor money.. then, NHRA changes most of the rules in the class, making it even more expensive to run.. and if you're lookin', some of the PS teams aren't making the long hauls anymore either..
In my opinion, NHRA is actually hoping for PS, as we know it, to fail.. the RUMOR MILL says that the NEW PS will be along the lines of the factory shoot out deal... IMAGINE THAT!!!
H
hickeybros
Guest
in reality,nhra took a shit in pro stocks lunch kit.fuel injection,no hood scoop,who could be that dumb of an ass. carbs,scoops,& wheels up starts,thats what people want to see.if anything happens to cause p/s to fail,blame yours truelyNHRA.but if they do happen to fall by the way,with out a doubt pro mod is surley grabbing that spot.what really sad is that the looneytunes running nhra,nerver,raced,drove or ever had anything to do with race cars,much less DRAG RACING
The up and coming classes are Pro Mod, Factory Shoot Out / Future PS, Top Dragster, and Top Sportsman.. I see the rest of Sportsman Racing as being in limbo.. some might say everything is fine and dandy, but I really don't think so...
BUT!!!!.. keeping the car counts up might just keep them in check.. they'll need another excuse... just my opinion...
BUT!!!!.. keeping the car counts up might just keep them in check.. they'll need another excuse... just my opinion...
The article by Jon Asher in Comp Plus.......what happened to Pro Stock ......really hits home . The recent Booing of Comp running , at a National Event , really hits home also. Hard to believe Comp and Pro Stock may soon be gone......
"Here is the behind-the-scenes reality of Pro Stock. In the not-too-distant past a senior NHRA executive had a meeting with the Pro Stock team owners in which they had the audacity to say words to the effect that “we’re just a bunch of rich guys trying to have some fun, so leave us alone and let us do what we want.” Never mind the fact that drag racing is about the fans and not the competitors, this stunning view of themselves spoke volumes about the disconnect between this handful of men and the reality of drag racing."
Yikes
They should open up the class to turbo 4 cylinder cars. 
They did it almost 40 years ago, didn't work then.They should open up the class to turbo 4 cylinder cars.
Turbo 4 cylinder cars weren't real relevant then. Now, every manufacturer has turbo 4 cylinder models.
Hey everyone,
Its been awhile since ive posted but here's my thoughts on P/S and NHRA's lack of participants from the top to the bottom.
Simple - Lack of payout to the racer.
To run at the top in today's NHRA Pro Stock Class it takes roughly $1.2M per year. That's $50K per race for a 24 race schedule.
That's with very little testing included in that amount.
The current prize fund verses the cost to compete is the issue with the low car count. Without a major sponsor there's not enough incentive or reward for teams to put in the effort to participate in today's Pro Stock.
This is the current payout:
Winner $25,000
R/Up $11,000
Semis $ 9,000
2nd Rd $ 7,000
1st Rd $5,000. Qualifying Money. This doesn't even pay expenses to the race and back. (The Problem)
That's a total payout per event of $122K.
I haven't researched it much but I found an article where Yates won a P/S race in 2001 and received $20,000 dollars. 16 years ago.
In 16 years the cost to run a competitive Pro Stock car has at least quadrupled.
Until this changes not only PS but NHRA Professional and Sportsman Racing in general will continue to decline.
But - What if the prize money in P/S was increased to:
Winner $50,000
R/Up $35,000
Semis $30,000
2nd Rd $25,000
1st Rd $20,000.
$20K to qualify is definitely worth making the effort to run the class.
This would cost an additional $103,000 per event.
Or an additional $2,472,000 per year.
I think this would quickly increase car count to 25 to 30 cars per race.
All racers need to be rewarded for the effort it takes to complete.
With $20,000 in qualifying money you would have 6 to 8 racers return almost immediately (including myself) plus many other guys would dive right back in.
There's 40 or 50 guys racing now that have the wherewithal to step up it just has to make since.
Just qualifying at 24 events would give a P/S team $480,000.
That's 40% of the $1,200,000 that it takes to run at the top for the entire season.
It's not that hard to find away to raise the additional prize money it just takes an effort by the ones in charge. A class sponsor would be an option.
We all know this won't happen without raising the prize fund for Top Fuel and Funny Car. NHRA won't have it.
So let's figure raising the yearly prize fund for Pro Stock by $2,500,000 - Funny Car by $4,000,000 and Top Fuel by $4,000,000.
That's $10.5 Million Dollars.
Again that should be a huge problem for the worlds biggest sanctioned racing organization.
$10.5M comes to $437,500 per event.
Let's say the Pro Stock class sponsor put up $1M, the Funny Car class sponsor put up $1.5M and the Top Fuel sponsor did the same.
$10.5M less $4M from class sponsors leaves $6.5M.
$6.5M now comes to $270,833 per event.
This is just an idea but figure $270,000 divided by 40,000 spectators (I think 40,000 is a low number) per event = $6.77 per spectator.
This could be done by increasing ticket sales, adding certain % to concessions, increase the amount charged for commercials or a combination of all the above.
The point I'm making is it wouldn't be that hard if someone would put in the effort.
Even without an individual class sponsor $437,500 divided by 40,000 spectators = a $11.00 increase per spectator.
More prize money equals higher car count, higher car count equals more spectators which equals more money on the bottom line.
You have to invest in your company in order to grow it. We all know that.
Its been awhile since ive posted but here's my thoughts on P/S and NHRA's lack of participants from the top to the bottom.
Simple - Lack of payout to the racer.
To run at the top in today's NHRA Pro Stock Class it takes roughly $1.2M per year. That's $50K per race for a 24 race schedule.
That's with very little testing included in that amount.
The current prize fund verses the cost to compete is the issue with the low car count. Without a major sponsor there's not enough incentive or reward for teams to put in the effort to participate in today's Pro Stock.
This is the current payout:
Winner $25,000
R/Up $11,000
Semis $ 9,000
2nd Rd $ 7,000
1st Rd $5,000. Qualifying Money. This doesn't even pay expenses to the race and back. (The Problem)
That's a total payout per event of $122K.
I haven't researched it much but I found an article where Yates won a P/S race in 2001 and received $20,000 dollars. 16 years ago.
In 16 years the cost to run a competitive Pro Stock car has at least quadrupled.
Until this changes not only PS but NHRA Professional and Sportsman Racing in general will continue to decline.
But - What if the prize money in P/S was increased to:
Winner $50,000
R/Up $35,000
Semis $30,000
2nd Rd $25,000
1st Rd $20,000.
$20K to qualify is definitely worth making the effort to run the class.
This would cost an additional $103,000 per event.
Or an additional $2,472,000 per year.
I think this would quickly increase car count to 25 to 30 cars per race.
All racers need to be rewarded for the effort it takes to complete.
With $20,000 in qualifying money you would have 6 to 8 racers return almost immediately (including myself) plus many other guys would dive right back in.
There's 40 or 50 guys racing now that have the wherewithal to step up it just has to make since.
Just qualifying at 24 events would give a P/S team $480,000.
That's 40% of the $1,200,000 that it takes to run at the top for the entire season.
It's not that hard to find away to raise the additional prize money it just takes an effort by the ones in charge. A class sponsor would be an option.
We all know this won't happen without raising the prize fund for Top Fuel and Funny Car. NHRA won't have it.
So let's figure raising the yearly prize fund for Pro Stock by $2,500,000 - Funny Car by $4,000,000 and Top Fuel by $4,000,000.
That's $10.5 Million Dollars.
Again that should be a huge problem for the worlds biggest sanctioned racing organization.
$10.5M comes to $437,500 per event.
Let's say the Pro Stock class sponsor put up $1M, the Funny Car class sponsor put up $1.5M and the Top Fuel sponsor did the same.
$10.5M less $4M from class sponsors leaves $6.5M.
$6.5M now comes to $270,833 per event.
This is just an idea but figure $270,000 divided by 40,000 spectators (I think 40,000 is a low number) per event = $6.77 per spectator.
This could be done by increasing ticket sales, adding certain % to concessions, increase the amount charged for commercials or a combination of all the above.
The point I'm making is it wouldn't be that hard if someone would put in the effort.
Even without an individual class sponsor $437,500 divided by 40,000 spectators = a $11.00 increase per spectator.
More prize money equals higher car count, higher car count equals more spectators which equals more money on the bottom line.
You have to invest in your company in order to grow it. We all know that.
Roger, I have a better idea. You and Steve come back to comp and raise your comp fund like ya'll did in the past and make Div 4 great again.
ps NHRA needs to open their eyes on the pro problem.
ps NHRA needs to open their eyes on the pro problem.
Rodger,
Do you think that the rule changes relating to rev limiter- which were intended to help the lower budget racer- helped at all to increase car count? In other words, did making it "easier" result in an increase in participation? What I'm seeing you say is that money, and in fact qualifying money is the biggest factor in participation. It costs what it costs, but payouts seem to be the only real solution.
Also, for NHRA to promote longevity of fan support and participation, would you find it reasonable or advantageous to let anyone under the age of 18 (for example) in for free? That might help families who would otherwise not come, be able to afford it. As well as getting young people in the gate and interested in the sport. Not to mention the extra hot dogs that would be sold.
So, other than just asking more people for more money, how do you promote a class like Pro Stock or Comp? Is it just a war of attrition or are the grass roots, hardcore, real racers missing the boat on something? What's in it for potential sponsors?
Do you think that the rule changes relating to rev limiter- which were intended to help the lower budget racer- helped at all to increase car count? In other words, did making it "easier" result in an increase in participation? What I'm seeing you say is that money, and in fact qualifying money is the biggest factor in participation. It costs what it costs, but payouts seem to be the only real solution.
Also, for NHRA to promote longevity of fan support and participation, would you find it reasonable or advantageous to let anyone under the age of 18 (for example) in for free? That might help families who would otherwise not come, be able to afford it. As well as getting young people in the gate and interested in the sport. Not to mention the extra hot dogs that would be sold.
So, other than just asking more people for more money, how do you promote a class like Pro Stock or Comp? Is it just a war of attrition or are the grass roots, hardcore, real racers missing the boat on something? What's in it for potential sponsors?
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Not at all.
Why would it? It didn't make it any easier!
I'm sure it has saved some money but probably very little.
The lower budget teams didnt spend extreme amounts on valve train maintenance and development anyway.
The well funded teams took whatever the savings were and spent it elsewhere.
It cost more money than it saved. Most teams that had to redesign the entire top of the engines.
Some where at 12,000 rpms at the time of the rule changes.
Then to mandate fuel injection at the same time made everything more complicated and added additional cost.
Payouts are the only solution and it's NHRAs responsibility to figure out a way to get it done.
Unless they are happy with just letting it die a slow death. Which is exactly what is happening now.
Every racer from Super Street to Top Fuel has to be paid more money.
NHRA has capitalized and taken advantage of the racers passion for the support forever but now many racers have found other venues to spend their money. If it's not at the local track or some other racing organization it's something else. The only true way to save NHRA Drag Racing is to PAY THE RACERS MORE MONEY!
Let's take Comp for instance. If a Comp Racer knew they were going to get a minimum of $1500 if they qualified for a National Event, car count would immediately increase. That would cover most racers expenses to and from the event.
In 1987 I was the Runner Up in Super Stock at the Texas Motor Plex. I received a total of $12,000.
When we won our first P/S race a few years ago I got a total of $22,000.
They could try the 18 and under free deal at a few races to see what impact it had. Even if it was for one day. I know they would sell a lot more food. My sons 20 years old now and 6' 5" and eats constantly.
I know 12 and under currently get in free and this is a big deal for families.
As you can tell my opinion is the only way to increase participation is rewarding the people who are NHRA Drag Racing. They are the racers and that have to be paid more!
I really don't have a solution on how to promote any class.
I do think by paying all racers more money that in itself will help promote all classes just by the increase in car count alone.
Then NHRA could use the increased numbers as a draw for fans. They certainly can't use that now for sure.
They commercial spots now should sound like - Come on out this weekend to the Low Racer Turnout Nationals. Where the the fields are 60% full, most of the racers are parked in the mud and the Top Fuel Show has 4 or 5 leaker teams that no ones ever heard of but NHRA guarantee them $10K to show up so they could blow up an lose the first round.
More money doesn't always fix a problem but in this case it's the only solution.
One more example of how under rewarded racers are:
Let's say a top P/S Team had a budget of $1.2M a year. Enough to compete for the Championship.
If that Team qualified #1 at every race, Won every race, Won the World Championship and received the GM Bonus for winning the Championship they would still lose money!
Mr. Brodgon -
Thank you for coming on here and giving your opinion and backing it up with cold hard facts. What you said is exactly what many of us have been saying for years - money solves everything! The only true way to increase participation is to increase the payout. Unfortunately, I do not think that is something that will happen soon on NHRA's end.
The only way to increase the payout structure is to do "funds" exactly like Mr. Lane, Mr. Browell and what you did for division 4 many years ago. I truly believe that if a racer could get his entry back at every race he attended should he lose first round, many more racers would come out of the woodwork. Unfortunately, right now there is not much incentive.
I wish there was a way to unite the 7 divisions and have an overall fund established to do exactly what you said in your previous post, which is to increase the payout. I know as a business owner myself, I would be more than happy to throw money into the fund if it guaranteed the longevity and increased participation in Comp.
Just my opinion
Michael
Thank you for coming on here and giving your opinion and backing it up with cold hard facts. What you said is exactly what many of us have been saying for years - money solves everything! The only true way to increase participation is to increase the payout. Unfortunately, I do not think that is something that will happen soon on NHRA's end.
The only way to increase the payout structure is to do "funds" exactly like Mr. Lane, Mr. Browell and what you did for division 4 many years ago. I truly believe that if a racer could get his entry back at every race he attended should he lose first round, many more racers would come out of the woodwork. Unfortunately, right now there is not much incentive.
I wish there was a way to unite the 7 divisions and have an overall fund established to do exactly what you said in your previous post, which is to increase the payout. I know as a business owner myself, I would be more than happy to throw money into the fund if it guaranteed the longevity and increased participation in Comp.
Just my opinion
Michael
The A/Fuel shootout at Tulsa Raceway Park at the end of this month is an example of something that should happen more often....pays 20K to win. NHRA legal cars taking matters in their own hands and organizing races outside the National/Divisional/Regional schedule.
