MSD grid

found out in a pro stock car last year that that thing was adding timing instead of retarding it. blew up a motor and took 2 more degrees out of number two for the next one and it blew up quicker. msd came over and told us that it was impossible so i wrote a program to take 5 degrees out at idle and sure enough it was adding it, then they beamed a new software link into it and it never blew up anymore stuff but we never ran it again either

ian
 
Well in the world of physics it isn't possible to advance the timing further than what is mechanically set at the pickup. The box would have to have a flux capacitor and go back in time, but only after the race car was going 88 mph.
 
I just lost an engine . All but one piston is good. It looks like it melted the top of the piston to the top ring. I talked to MSD tech he said to take box in . He said they can test it. I had also heard about a pro stock team that had lost a engine due to MSD grid. Thanks
 
we lost four in two weeks actually. three in pomona and one in phoenix. and i am not sure if you are kidding or not steve but it absolutlely happened. i would not have ever thought it could do what it did either, probably why it took four engines to figure out

ian
 
Ian

The flux capacitor part was a joke, But if you set the max timing at the crank trigger to 30 degrees it is physically impossible for the box to advance it further than that. The box would either have to anticipate the crank trigger signal or go back in time to ignite the plug prior to getting the signal.

I have no doubt that something happened with the MSD.

Now if the timing at the crank trigger was set to 40 Degrees and the timing curve in the box was set at 30 degrees( Retarded 10 degrees from the crank trigger). Then in that case the box could potentially advance the timing to a max of 40 degrees
 
well with the motec mine is set at 8 degrees at the crank trigger and it can move it all the way to about 35 degrees. Remember steve this is digital its not old school HEI style. The big deciding factor is not the crank trigger but the pointer on the distributor. Thats what fires so the crank is just a ref.
 
429 K/AA Old Dude

When you guys finally enter into the 21st century you will get rid of the antiquated distributor and type in the ECM what degree of advance at what rpm you want it and go on....... If I remember correctly MSD declared bankruptcy didn't they? I think I'd be looking at something different. They could go away at any time....
 
Clint the laws of physics say that is not possible. Our Distributor is just a dummy to point the spark at a cylinder, everything is timed from the crank trigger.
 
so steve you are telling me it didnt happen? do you think i am not totally aware of what the capabilities of all of these ignition systems are? joe pondo was standing there with the timing light and witnessed the engine with 35 degrees at idle after i had taken it out in the box, then he looked at what i did and and re wrote it again and it ADDED 5 degrees to it at idle. i mean really man why would you act like nobody knows what to do with these things. you can say it is impossible to advance it any farther than what the wheel is set at and until that day i would have argued it right along with you, but now i can say with a pretty good deal of confidence that nothing is impossible. msd had no explaination for it and still dont to my knowledge. call larry and ask him if you think im not telling the truth.
 
For what it's worth , we tested every spark , device , trigger , all of which caused the motor to blow up . Without a doubt , the MSD stuff was the dirtiest and produced the most RF , which would false trigger either the crank trigger or the cam trigger....boom....add 10 timing or 50% more fuel or both , either way it blew up . The data we got was unbelievable , so we saw no path to go down to use it , hard to believe we had used nothing but MSD up to this engine program , begs the question " how many motors had we blown up in the past due to this dirty voltage ? "

Apart from the MSD , that distributor spraying spark around is not a good thing either . just asking for a false path to getting secondary voltage into the primary .
 
Ian

I'm not saying something didn't happen, And certainly not saying that you don't know what you are talking about, cause that simply isn't true.We all know you are a pretty sharp cookie, Hell I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed. All I'm saying, Is I can't think of a way that it is physically possible. it just defies the laws of physics.

It's making my brain hurt.
 
I think that some of the Guys running MSD in TA had a lot of this also. I know we had 3 7al3 and not one of them was any good they would add timing or just kill the motor for a second and when your running NOS that make for a big Boom
 
Ian

Is I can't think of a way that it is physically possible. it just defies the laws of physics.

It's making my brain hurt.

It may have appeared to be advanced but Maybe it was actually retarded that much ....

just a thought how it could've actually happened...
 
Can anyone suggest another brand of ignition system that will do what the the power grid does? Maybe an efi computer and just use the igntion side only perhaps? I was considering buying a powergrid but i have heard one too many bad stories i think.
 
advance

from my experience with running grids, successfully, in several top alcohol cars, is that there is 3-5 degrees of retard built into the box. so let's say you want zero to equal 29 degrees on the grid, if you unplugged the grid, plugged the trigger straight into the mag (distributor in your application) it would read 32-34 degrees.

If something went wrong in the Grid, this is where I think it is possible for it to advance the timing. Don't ask me how, but empirically that's where I see the potential.

I have seen an 8973 years ago throw a shitfit when two retards were engaged at the same time (programming error). I didn't realize 0.0 timing was on the button, so I had another retard active on the button. So when I figured out how to drag 0.0 down to the amount I wanted out, I thought ok, i have 12 degrees out on the button and at 0.0 it will 'pick up' at 12 degrees retard. In reality both were active on the button. Luckily we never made it off the jack stands with that file....

Now I'm not a distributor guy, but it's possible components in the ignition could have built in delay/retard that in the event of failure could potentially 'add' timing.