New factoring equation
- Thread starter Will Hanna
- Start date
Instead of inventing new math to make your car go fast how about WORKING on your cars to make them go fast.
leave it alone. if Comp racers keep nagging NHRA pretty soon they will get sick of it and Comp will go the way of Modified Production. And Top Dragster will replace it.
leave it alone. if Comp racers keep nagging NHRA pretty soon they will get sick of it and Comp will go the way of Modified Production. And Top Dragster will replace it.
Patrick Hale didn't invent new math...
He used statistics and applied a principle of curve fitting that existed before Wally started the NHRA.
Software is available to perform this type of calculation for a few hundred dollars.
.....Altitude factors and permanent index change should not be connected. (this is an item for a vote)
We have not heard what drove the decision to make this change.
Will..... it is time for a vote.
Len Imbrogno replied to me, "If 65-70% of the Comp. Racers can agree on something, the NHRA Competition Committee will definately review and consider it. "
Ray Hadford
A/ND 6577
He used statistics and applied a principle of curve fitting that existed before Wally started the NHRA.
Software is available to perform this type of calculation for a few hundred dollars.
.....Altitude factors and permanent index change should not be connected. (this is an item for a vote)
We have not heard what drove the decision to make this change.
Will..... it is time for a vote.
Len Imbrogno replied to me, "If 65-70% of the Comp. Racers can agree on something, the NHRA Competition Committee will definately review and consider it. "
Ray Hadford
A/ND 6577
The Decision
Good point Ray,
So why was the decision made to hit the sea-level index via the altitude factor....Len, please help us out here.
Good point Ray,
So why was the decision made to hit the sea-level index via the altitude factor....Len, please help us out here.
i couldn't agree more. get you car to go faster. that is the base of our class. but when you do, after you have spent countless hours and ungodly amounts of money, do you think it is right that it can be taken away from you by a factoring system that no one seems to agree with?
someone asked why the factoring system was not an issue up until this point. i would say that is because we were not forced to live and die by a factoring system that is not accurate. do i think it is right that records can be set at factored tracks....no. we have had records, and that is all fine and dandy, but in the end, do you race comp to get records, or do you go out and try to win races? i would bet that 100% of comp racers would gladly give up a record for a national or divisional win. and by the way, why can you set a record at a divisional, but not a national? by this logic, why should you be able to hit your index at a race where you cannot set a record doing it? but that is not the point here. do i think that there needs to be index hits....yes. do i think that you should be able to hit indexes at every track....maybe, if it truly is a run that warrants a cic penalty. but how do we know that it is? by the factoring system? is it that precise?
personally i do not feel that that a factoring system that does not take weather conditions into account is that precise. will NHRA ever go to a system that factors tracks by the current weather conditions for the weekend? probably not, but that would solve a lot of problems concerning mineshaft conditions. do i think it is fair that someone has to go out and run in mineshaft conditions and run the risk of hitting their index......no. i am sure that the answer from some will be "well then, just don't go to those races." is that fair?.....no. i would assume that most racers do not want to pick and choose where they go race by "what will the air be like there?", or "that track's factor is too fast." but rather by "hey, Vegas is a great facility, and a fun town, let's go race there."
let's try and get together on an issue, before we try and set out to fix it. i am not asking if you agree or disagree with factoring, index hits, how the factoring system has come to be, or how to fix it. but point blank.....do you really feel that the factoring system is accurate. that's it... yes or no?
i know that everyone is getting tired of these polls, but just out of curiosity, i would love to see one done on this.
someone asked why the factoring system was not an issue up until this point. i would say that is because we were not forced to live and die by a factoring system that is not accurate. do i think it is right that records can be set at factored tracks....no. we have had records, and that is all fine and dandy, but in the end, do you race comp to get records, or do you go out and try to win races? i would bet that 100% of comp racers would gladly give up a record for a national or divisional win. and by the way, why can you set a record at a divisional, but not a national? by this logic, why should you be able to hit your index at a race where you cannot set a record doing it? but that is not the point here. do i think that there needs to be index hits....yes. do i think that you should be able to hit indexes at every track....maybe, if it truly is a run that warrants a cic penalty. but how do we know that it is? by the factoring system? is it that precise?
personally i do not feel that that a factoring system that does not take weather conditions into account is that precise. will NHRA ever go to a system that factors tracks by the current weather conditions for the weekend? probably not, but that would solve a lot of problems concerning mineshaft conditions. do i think it is fair that someone has to go out and run in mineshaft conditions and run the risk of hitting their index......no. i am sure that the answer from some will be "well then, just don't go to those races." is that fair?.....no. i would assume that most racers do not want to pick and choose where they go race by "what will the air be like there?", or "that track's factor is too fast." but rather by "hey, Vegas is a great facility, and a fun town, let's go race there."
let's try and get together on an issue, before we try and set out to fix it. i am not asking if you agree or disagree with factoring, index hits, how the factoring system has come to be, or how to fix it. but point blank.....do you really feel that the factoring system is accurate. that's it... yes or no?
i know that everyone is getting tired of these polls, but just out of curiosity, i would love to see one done on this.
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Mario, that was simply one of the best post I've ever read bar none!!!!!!!!!! Your my hero, never forget that..
I can't believe how wound up everyone has gotten over this hit on B/AA. Everyone I see posting here were not even there. The correction factor was fine, I was there. I was down 3 to 5 hun. from seattle 2 weeks earlier. That is with the correction. Marshall was flat out fast! That car will run in the 6 second zone for sure, gauranteed! It is almost embarassing to look on here and see everyone whining. What about all the hits back east that happened before we even got out of the garage? I just hope NHRA ignores the handfull of whiners that are always posting on here. I think NHRA made the right decision with hits at altitude. It helps out the slower cars like myself. Be resposible and put some lead in, with no penalties the fast cars will dominate at altitude resulting in less cars.
i just hope that the denver points meet and nationals are not going to be the blood bath they have the potential to be. if it does turn out to be that way though, i can guarantee that there will be a lot more talk about the factoring system. good luck to all who will be attending this race and to those who will not be but have cars in their class running there.
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To Post or Not To Post
Steve, having an opinion on this site has proven to be a risky venture, yet you have perservered. We have largely agreed on most directions the discussion's have headed....even though we have never met. The facts that we all discuss are based on the future of Comp.....it is a scarey attitude that seems to prevail, when the fundamental reason these discussions are happening is to prolong the existence of Comp. The number of cars....12... at my home track this weekend at Mission (we should be #13) has got to be justification of these discussion's on this forum. The "Leave Comp Alone" attitude will be the demise of it....somebody has to take a look outside of their box and as the lawyer says "without prejudice" what would benefit the class as a whole. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see we got a problem when one of the fastest tracks in the world, that attracts SS hemi cars from Florida, has the Comp cars avoiding it like the plague. There is something wrong with this picture. HELLO everyone....this is not good.
Steve, having an opinion on this site has proven to be a risky venture, yet you have perservered. We have largely agreed on most directions the discussion's have headed....even though we have never met. The facts that we all discuss are based on the future of Comp.....it is a scarey attitude that seems to prevail, when the fundamental reason these discussions are happening is to prolong the existence of Comp. The number of cars....12... at my home track this weekend at Mission (we should be #13) has got to be justification of these discussion's on this forum. The "Leave Comp Alone" attitude will be the demise of it....somebody has to take a look outside of their box and as the lawyer says "without prejudice" what would benefit the class as a whole. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see we got a problem when one of the fastest tracks in the world, that attracts SS hemi cars from Florida, has the Comp cars avoiding it like the plague. There is something wrong with this picture. HELLO everyone....this is not good.
It seems as tho when its a post about changing comp everyone is always saying leave comp alone and work on your car. Then we someone smashes an indew really bad all the same people are on here whining about how the CIC system isnt working and how it needs to be changed! my opinion is comp racing is go fast or go home... if u cant hang put some shoe polish on the window and run ss, t/s, or t/d.
Thanks my rant is over
Simoneaux
Thanks my rant is over
Simoneaux
Rampy Should....
Above all.... Rampy should be posting here...which begs the question....why isn't he.....the Professional Comp racer........?????
Above all.... Rampy should be posting here...which begs the question....why isn't he.....the Professional Comp racer........?????
IMO, Rampy was being overly modest when he said that. The best teams (like Rampy's) are well prepared (i.e breakage is rare; runs are consistent) and consistently take care of business at both ends of the track. As is seen in many arenas of competition, the best teams push the others to making mistakes. IMO, calling the opponents mistakes "luck" detracts from hard work of the team that is the beneficiary. BTW, I'm not a Rampy cheerleader...just giving my .02.
On completely different note...sure wish I was at the Maple Grove LODRS! From what I have seen on DCR, it looks like national event caliber (or better) fields in Comp, SS and Stock!
Mark
Steve Holloway said:
On completely different note...sure wish I was at the Maple Grove LODRS! From what I have seen on DCR, it looks like national event caliber (or better) fields in Comp, SS and Stock!
Mark
The Path to Winning
Bill Maropolus once wrote a book (or a paper) titled ,"101 Ways to Lose" and at the time it seemed complete....approximately 1978....some years later he was at the track as a crew member (engine builder) and the 101 ways to lose came up as a jive topic....he said that list is a little light now. He noted that, I believe it was Jeff Lane, had just lost a round of S/Stock because his power window wouldn't go up, so the list goes on. That just happened to Butner also. The point is still the same, winning has always required some measure of luck and it always will. Winning in Comp is no different, regardless of factors or the speed of the tree or the bogus index, ya gotta be good to be fast and ya goota be good to be lucky. It would be nice if driving at the starting line and down the track was the most important part of that job, unfortunately, the finish line and the decisions made there affect you and your class forever. That is fundamentally wrong and the lifting thing, that is such a big part of Comp, will slowly erode the credibility of this great eliminator.
Bill Maropolus once wrote a book (or a paper) titled ,"101 Ways to Lose" and at the time it seemed complete....approximately 1978....some years later he was at the track as a crew member (engine builder) and the 101 ways to lose came up as a jive topic....he said that list is a little light now. He noted that, I believe it was Jeff Lane, had just lost a round of S/Stock because his power window wouldn't go up, so the list goes on. That just happened to Butner also. The point is still the same, winning has always required some measure of luck and it always will. Winning in Comp is no different, regardless of factors or the speed of the tree or the bogus index, ya gotta be good to be fast and ya goota be good to be lucky. It would be nice if driving at the starting line and down the track was the most important part of that job, unfortunately, the finish line and the decisions made there affect you and your class forever. That is fundamentally wrong and the lifting thing, that is such a big part of Comp, will slowly erode the credibility of this great eliminator.
I was wondering what the record would be in P/S if NHRA used the factoring formula on P/S like they do in comp. Could a P/S car go quicker in one of the factored track than at sea-level? Maybe we should figure it out so that we can determine just how far the factoring is off. Something to look forward to when Denver comes around.
Craig I think thats one of the best comparisons Ive heard on here about the factoring. If memory serves me right the best run to date is an .07 or right in there and that factors out currently to a .64 Very good point.
