No Stirring the pot..... Please read and thoughtfully respond

Here's a question about red lights.

From a fan's perspective, they want to see a race to the finish line, and/or how fast the cars can go. So would anything change if it was no longer possible to hit your index on a red light??

Therefore, no penalty for running it out the back door.

Also, should the rule apply to both cars??

Typically in the other classes, stock & super stock, the cars make a full pass after the red light.

Lastly, if the Personal index stays, the driver should qualify under the PI.

Thanks, Ron
 
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I think by taking a tenth back off the class index and start 2018 with all personal indexes being your new class index would bring back racing to the stripe. There wouldn't be many personal index hits unless you had real good air in witch the mineshaft rule should protect!
 
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I've posted this a few times, but add an AH class. Comella ran A/SM a few times knowing he wouldn't be competitive with a legal AH car. I bet with a reasonable AH index he would run the red car in comp more. I would also run mine in comp. Comp needs to add cars, add an AH index/class with the same rules as SS/AH. That will help add a few cars (across every division too) and they are built and running, not hopes and dreams of attracting racers or cars to what looks like a dying class.
 
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Building on Mr Welker's post and possibly doing the same for FS/XX to help make full field for Comp in National Events.
Thanks, Ron
 
I have read 1000's of posts here over time and in the 20 years I have raced comp, posted twice. Once to explain the SR18 deal in Dallas 2 years ago and once to thank everyone for the kind words when I was lucky enough to win the four wide's in 2012. While I respect the right of each of us to our opinion and the appreciate the forum used here to express them I have a questions that will help me understand some of the comments I've read.... #1 What exactly has PI done that is so wrong it needs changing? Just the facts please.... #2 Why would arbitrarily removing index make the racing better? Again just the facts.

Thanks,
Russell
C/AA 2617
 
Suggested change one. Keep the PI but you have to qualify off of it
Suggested change two. Only round winners take an index hit. If you lose the round you are the same for the next race. This should let the CIC do its job.
Alan Layton
 
I have read 1000's of posts here over time and in the 20 years I have raced comp, posted twice. Once to explain the SR18 deal in Dallas 2 years ago and once to thank everyone for the kind words when I was lucky enough to win the four wide's in 2012. While I respect the right of each of us to our opinion and the appreciate the forum used here to express them I have a questions that will help me understand some of the comments I've read.... #1 What exactly has PI done that is so wrong it needs changing? Just the facts please.... #2 Why would arbitrarily removing index make the racing better? Again just the facts.

Thanks,
Russell
C/AA 2617
Great Questions!!!
 
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Facts
1) Personal index caused comp to be booed at Norwalk.
2) Personal index caused comp to be taken out of the lanes at Indy points meet while drivers were buckled in their cars to re-ladder the field.
3) Personal index has not increased car counts
4) Personal index has added confusion to an already confusing class. **opinion** that can't help attract new racers
5) Removing index would promote racing to the finish line, which is safer and more enjoyable for everyone watching and participating.
 
I have read 1000's of posts here over time and in the 20 years I have raced comp, posted twice. Once to explain the SR18 deal in Dallas 2 years ago and once to thank everyone for the kind words when I was lucky enough to win the four wide's in 2012. While I respect the right of each of us to our opinion and the appreciate the forum used here to express them I have a questions that will help me understand some of the comments I've read.... #1 What exactly has PI done that is so wrong it needs changing? Just the facts please.... #2 Why would arbitrarily removing index make the racing better? Again just the facts.

Thanks,
Russell
C/AA 2617

Answer to Question #1 A car that was able to run .70 under in 2016 and hit the class for personal and permanent now has a driver change to a longtime driver who had personal and permanent index hits in 2016 and this driver now gets to use personal index in the new ride. This did not increase participation. Easy fix, Once a driver uses up his personal, does not get personal in any other competition eliminator class.
 
ALL I read is made up Facts or half Truths about Personal index, there is not a GOOD
reason to change the Personal index rule!! If you want to change a BAD rule, change that
MUST run Sunoco Fuel. SR18 is not as good VP C25 in my opinion. Comp should be able to
run any BRAND approved fuel, not just Sunoco.
 
I have read 1000's of posts here over time and in the 20 years I have raced comp, posted twice. Once to explain the SR18 deal in Dallas 2 years ago and once to thank everyone for the kind words when I was lucky enough to win the four wide's in 2012. While I respect the right of each of us to our opinion and the appreciate the forum used here to express them I have a questions that will help me understand some of the comments I've read.... #1 What exactly has PI done that is so wrong it needs changing? Just the facts please.... #2 Why would arbitrarily removing index make the racing better? Again just the facts.

Thanks,
Russell
C/AA 2617

i would like to see facts of the benefits of giving 67 classes back Index a few years ago, and then a tenth back to every index in 2016? How does it benefit anyone to hit their PI for 9 or ten, then have to spend thousands to gain that 9 or ten back to be in the same spot they were before they hit their PI?We had way more finish line racing before all the Index was given back. Not everyone has the money or the type of car to change classes or to buy new cars when they hit their PI. It either makes you spend even more money to find the hit index, or buy a new car, park your car, or put a new driver in an existing car. Facts are....cars have already parked, they are going to park if rules aren't changed for next year, or new drivers have been put in for existing cars who's original driver might have already hit themselves. Why don't we start worrying about the guys who are actually racing, rather than worry about the guys who are threatening to race because they see the benefit of PI, but still don't come out to race? So I guess my question is....show me facts and statistics that prove PI has helped, and that comp is in a better place than before Index gifts and PI. That's why we're parking our car and going NMCA racing. Frank had a blast driving the 10.5 NA class this past weekend driving to the stripe again.
 
Just my 2 cents but Why can,t we just Race with the rules that have been implemented and be happy we still have a place to race! We all have money invested in the cars we race some could go race elsewhere but some would become expensive paper weights, but we all have the same rules to follow, so why is there always someone wanting to change them! We all have the same rules to follow! So lets just show up and race the rules we have and quit trying to reinvent the class! The economy has effected all forms of racing but we still keep trying to say we need to make it more attractive for new racers! I call (Bullshit) We need to worry about the guys out here right now! Changing back to the way it was is not going to help anything, half the racers are GONNA LIKE IT HALF ARE GONNA HATE IT, this class is hard enough already!
SO LEAVE IT ALONE and lets just race!
 
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Leave it alone two years ago and there is no PI. They tried to help with participation adding PI. I think it is weak as shit. That is my opinion. I don't think the PI helped participation much if any but I can see some negative affects coming now. So like I said before fix the screwed up index situation we have and it won't really matter if there is a PI or not.
Clark Smiley
 
Facts
1) Personal index caused comp to be booed at Norwalk.
2) Personal index caused comp to be taken out of the lanes at Indy points meet while drivers were buckled in their cars to re-ladder the field.
3) Personal index has not increased car counts
4) Personal index has added confusion to an already confusing class. **opinion** that can't help attract new racers
5) Removing index would promote racing to the finish line, which is safer and more enjoyable for everyone watching and participating.

1) a mistake caused the booing but I guess a mistake could be made entering non personal indexes
2) This also happened before personal indexes
3) Is this a fact? I know for a fact it has in D1.
4) Comp is very simple to understand with or without personal indexes if you want to.
5) How can you be sure this will increase car counts?
 
Answer to Question #1 A car that was able to run .70 under in 2016 and hit the class for personal and permanent now has a driver change to a longtime driver who had personal and permanent index hits in 2016 and this driver now gets to use personal index in the new ride. This did not increase participation. Easy fix, Once a driver uses up his personal, does not get personal in any other competition eliminator class.

It has always been a class where you use the rules to your advantage as best you can and always will be just like many other classes. Did you ever think that maybe some of the mentioned driver/s wouldn't be here now if they couldn't and there would be less cars.
 
Facts
1) Personal index caused comp to be booed at Norwalk.
2) Personal index caused comp to be taken out of the lanes at Indy points meet while drivers were buckled in their cars to re-ladder the field.
3) Personal index has not increased car counts
4) Personal index has added confusion to an already confusing class. **opinion** that can't help attract new racers
5) Removing index would promote racing to the finish line, which is safer and more enjoyable for everyone watching and participating.

Hi Brian, would like to say hello in person one day. You come from a really great racing family, highly respected, awesome record. Saw your dad once in Montongomety Alabama, he talked me into buying a Richard Suncoast Roadster. Never quite got it figured out. Gave it up after 7 years.

As for fact #1... did the PI rule cause the booing our did a poorly run event with a bunch of dummies behind the computer screens create the case for the bluebirds.#2 Was this a PI issue or poor NHRA race execution. Because of index confusion I recall being pulled out of the lanes years ago before PI was even considered. Can't fix dumb with rules! 3. Car counts... Would love to see the facts over the last three years. I was told there has been some incremental improvement in counts. Are the number of comp racers down? Would love to see the percentages NOT just the whole numbers. Maybe you can supply them for all of us to review. Knowledge is power!!! 4. Yeah comps index has always been confusing. Maybe I can offer a fix..... take one second off of every index and for sure everyone will race to the line. #5, Without index how would we handicap a four cylinder dragster versus a 700" door car. Maybe you can share some thoughts here that would clear things up.

Here is one BIG FACT that impacted me (and probably a bunch of other guys).... PI.... If a guy running in Bradenton in February blasts the C/AA index with a -600 feet DA NO ONE in the country has to go spend $50,000 to find 30 HP. Pretty nice way to control your race budget. To me MY PI is a bank.... use it if you want when appropriate (don't screw the other guys in the class when you do) or DON'T. I prefer options over regulations..... but that's just me.

I really do appreciate everyone's opinions.... I'm still trying to understand what is broken before I suggest a way how to fix it.

Love you guys... thanks for the candid conversation.
Russell

Facts
1) Personal index caused comp to be booed at Norwalk.
2) Personal index caused comp to be taken out of the lanes at Indy points meet while drivers were buckled in their cars to re-ladder the field.
3) Personal index has not increased car counts
4) Personal index has added confusion to an already confusing class. **opinion** that can't help attract new racers
5) Removing index would promote racing to the finish line, which is safer and more enjoyable for everyone watching and participating.
 
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The only reason I posted on this was because the question was asked on what ideas on how to make changes for next year to help the class. I really don't care if they change or not we will race with whatever rules they give us.
 
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1) a mistake caused the booing but I guess a mistake could be made entering non personal indexes
2) This also happened before personal indexes
3) Is this a fact? I know for a fact it has in D1.
4) Comp is very simple to understand with or without personal indexes if you want to.
5) How can you be sure this will increase car counts?

I'm just gonna keep racing cause personal index or not I love being out here racing no matter what index system there Is!

Mr. Jolly hit it right on the head with why this PI deal was implemented in the first place! If a guy hits his index in great air then it's on him.

Try racing at Topeka in July!

That's all I'm gonna say to any of this!
 
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i would like to see facts of the benefits of giving 67 classes back Index a few years ago, and then a tenth back to every index in 2016? How does it benefit anyone to hit their PI for 9 or ten, then have to spend thousands to gain that 9 or ten back to be in the same spot they were before they hit their PI?We had way more finish line racing before all the Index was given back. Not everyone has the money or the type of car to change classes or to buy new cars when they hit their PI. It either makes you spend even more money to find the hit index, or buy a new car, park your car, or put a new driver in an existing car. Facts are....cars have already parked, they are going to park if rules aren't changed for next year, or new drivers have been put in for existing cars who's original driver might have already hit themselves. Why don't we start worrying about the guys who are actually racing, rather than worry about the guys who are threatening to race because they see the benefit of PI, but still don't come out to race? So I guess my question is....show me facts and statistics that prove PI has helped, and that comp is in a better place than before Index gifts and PI. That's why we're parking our car and going NMCA racing. Frank had a blast driving the 10.5 NA class this past weekend driving to the stripe again.

If you want to quit and run something else that's one thing but I don't think it's because of personal index. There are people in your class doing very well this year and Frank is just as good as the next guy. I hate to see you guys go but wish you all the best. I have been having a blast every weekend in Comp since 1994 when I started running it and for many years before that as crew for my dad. It's a great class. Always was and still is with these rules. The rules will NEVER make EVERYONE happy.