People sitting in the stands aren't looking at NHRA documents or browsing forums though. All of the other classes are simple to understand, either heads up or trying to run the actual number on the board.
No Stirring the pot..... Please read and thoughtfully respond
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People sitting in the stands aren't looking at NHRA documents or browsing forums though. All of the other classes are simple to understand, either heads up or trying to run the actual number on the board.
Bruno I hear ya buddy but I think we should look back at the history before the CIC system was introduced. If my memory serves me correctly there was a big demand for a change because a select few were dominating for years. I definitely don't have the answers and I am not sure we can ever be certain what would work best. I do know I really enjoy racing Comp and I will help in anyway I can to keep it going.. It is what I love to do most as my get away from the daily grind. I will continue to race Comp and try to convince everyone to get out there and race.
I was speaking more to the racer than the fan with that response. I guess maybe ive been doing it too long so it's easy for me.
I am not good with adding links on here but I am pretty sure everything you need to understand it is all on nhraracer.com in the rule book and if you click on indexes on the left side of the main page it will give you the Competition CIC Index description.
Under the current situation, every time Troy has hit the index, it doesn't really effect us because of Franks PI, it really only effects us in qualifying. Obviously you did not get my point of giving Index back, because if you took away the .15 that bd/a has been given back over the last 4 or 5 years, bd/a would have only been hit for 3. So you take away all of the gifts to all the classes that received Index back, it levels itself out and cars race to the stripe again. If bd/a was a 7.33, and Frank ran 6.66 this year, he would have been .66 under. In 2008, that would have been an awesome run. Instead, he was 78 under, which is dumb.
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I can guarantee you it's not. There is some info there, but not all of it. I have just gone with the flow because other racers have told me what the rules are, yet I've never actually seen them. For example at the Indy Division race #2, when my personal index was 7.72 and the class index was 7.60 at the time. I qualified off the 7.72 but yet it was brought to my attention in the staging lanes that I was supposed to qualify off the class index of 7.60. That caused the fiasco there, and I just went with it. But I have still not seen a rule written anywhere that states that your personal index cannot be slower than your class index? Not saying it isn't true, but if it isn't written, and somewhat easy to access, how are people supposed to know that??
Not trying to be a smartass but it's hard to not bring up the fact that's exactly what I said a few posts back.
Glad you have finally realized it. Now about educating newcomers about the class. There needs to be an easier way than just fully committing to running Comp and learning it as you go. Which is what we have done. Most won't do that though. I'm just giving you some feedback as a newcomer to Comp, as you are a SRAC rep and maybe it's something that should be discussed. Maybe not??
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While I was a total fan of the PI system, and thought it would be a great tool to keep slower cars in the field, and out of the garage, it is proving not to be a good thing..
I have witnessed several fast car drivers having to change class, change cars, or sit out because their PI hits have made them less competitive.. this does not help the class or car counts.. the complaints are audible in the pits..
In my opinion, if the PI system is to stay in place, it should be used during qualifying, and even in heads up races during eliminations.. there should not be a give back because your in the same class.. this would provide a more honest ladder too..
I'm also in agreement with Book and Smiley on the index issues, along with deleting altitude adjustments from any document, or rule book, in which it appears.. run off your index at every track.. the altitude affects EVERYONE at the race, no need for adjustments..
I have witnessed several fast car drivers having to change class, change cars, or sit out because their PI hits have made them less competitive.. this does not help the class or car counts.. the complaints are audible in the pits..
In my opinion, if the PI system is to stay in place, it should be used during qualifying, and even in heads up races during eliminations.. there should not be a give back because your in the same class.. this would provide a more honest ladder too..
I'm also in agreement with Book and Smiley on the index issues, along with deleting altitude adjustments from any document, or rule book, in which it appears.. run off your index at every track.. the altitude affects EVERYONE at the race, no need for adjustments..
My thoughts without reason...Get rid of personal. Go back to class indexes.Take a tenth off of all current class index. Comp at all National events. Qualify with handicaps like we are racing so its always a show.
Please when posting only talk for yourself. Please don't get on here and say that 22 people have told you that they wont race if we remove personal. No third party fake news please... If its important to them tell them to create an account and speak for themselves. If you can race comp you can handle a website login.
Please when posting only talk for yourself. Please don't get on here and say that 22 people have told you that they wont race if we remove personal. No third party fake news please... If its important to them tell them to create an account and speak for themselves. If you can race comp you can handle a website login.
I race comp for many reasons in my mind, but ultimately its about making my car perform the best with what I have. With that said, the PI system helps me. I don't have to worry about buying the latest high tech piece, or what another racer is doing across the country in great air. I control it, and my performance or lack of is based on my knowledge, finances and tuning decisions.
One change would be to qualify based off PI.
No matter if there is a change, I will support the class the best I can. I will race the races that fit my schedule and pocket book, and most likely be a 1st round turd.
One change would be to qualify based off PI.
No matter if there is a change, I will support the class the best I can. I will race the races that fit my schedule and pocket book, and most likely be a 1st round turd.
I'm not sure why it would need to be in the rule book when it's not possible to have a personal index slower than the class index. The first day you step into a new one, you start with the class index and your personal can only get faster from there. What happened at Indy just sounded like someone screwed up, plain and simple. In D1, I myself haven't seen a single instance of any class or personal indexes being wrong.
I can guarantee you it's not. There is some info there, but not all of it. I have just gone with the flow because other racers have told me what the rules are, yet I've never actually seen them. For example at the Indy Division race #2, when my personal index was 7.72 and the class index was 7.60 at the time. I qualified off the 7.72 but yet it was brought to my attention in the staging lanes that I was supposed to qualify off the class index of 7.60. That caused the fiasco there, and I just went with it. But I have still not seen a rule written anywhere that states that your personal index cannot be slower than your class index? Not saying it isn't true, but if it isn't written, and somewhat easy to access, how are people supposed to know that??
Not trying to be a smartass but it's hard to not bring up the fact that's exactly what I said a few posts back.
I'm just giving you some feedback as a newcomer to Comp, as you are a SRAC rep and maybe it's something that should be discussed. Maybe not??
Take a look at the Rulebook in section 2 , pages 5 & 6 and you will see the maximum hits.
I'm not trying to be a smart ass either, I guess I'm just a little slow realizing things. Just an example for me, I don't understand all the rules of MLB or NHL because I am not interested in them but if I was as a participant or a fan, I would fully commit to understanding them no matter their complexity. I'm sorry I am not saying what you want to hear but I truly will help anyway I can to the best of my ability. I'm still going to stand by my thoughts about it not being hard to understand and again its not meant to offend anyone.
Charlie,
By complaints audible in the pits you must be talking about D1 so tell those guys, matter of fact tell everyone to speak up on this site because there are many guys in D1 that tell me in person that they are in favor of PI and would be done if indexes were reduced but apparently it only holds water if they post it on this site.LOL
Craig you don't have to take my word for it but we were told NHRA instituted PI based greatly upon racer input. If you don't believe me ask the SRAC reps from 2015 that you trust. There seems to have been a large contingent for this that was not vocal publically.
Frank, I don't believe that the majority of people wanted Pi. I think an extremely vocal minority wanted Pi. Those are only my opinions though. When you post here please don't back up your facts with other people told me so... Doesn't help the dialogue unless they will get on here and state their opinion.
It doesn't really matter what we believe or it was done, they did it whether we wanted it or not!
I will continue to say what I choose on this forum unless they throw me off, LOL and you can continue to not believe it if you choose to. I cannot make people voice their opinions on this site but I do encourage them to. Unfortunately most of them also tell me they do not wish to engage with a lot of people on this site so they stay away but you probably don't think that's valid either. No hard feelings I get it. The passion is all good.
Good post Craig!
To get back to the origination of this post, we (my husband and I), appreciate that Greg sent out an email to Frank to get feedback. He knows how Frank feels, and he doesn't try and blow smoke up our rears and try to convince us this flawed broken system is working, and try to tell us how we "should" look at the situation. I have no idea what's said when I'm not around, but at least he's asking & listening. So Greg, thank you for asking Franks opinion, and then not try and convince us that the opinion is wrong. I think it would do the class good if the SRAC and NHRA would listen to the guys racing, rather than try to convince us why they think something is better and going to bring out new racers. If you make rules to try and bring out 3 new 2 or 3 races a year racers, but you lose 20 10 race a year racers....the system probably isn't working....and that's what we are looking at.
Can we remember one thing? Comp is supposed to be a performanced based class. Be it money or ingenuity or hard work or whatever you can come up with, comp has went another direction as of late. THE BADDEST MOTHER FOCKER OUT THERE SHOULD BE ON TOP!!! That is not an opinion. It is a fact!!
Clark Smiley
Clark Smiley
If the racers think the SRAC reps are not listening to the racers and representing their opinions to NHRA then the racers should vote them out and put their hat in the ring. I certainly would if I felt that way. I'm pretty sure most of the current SRAC reps are doing it because nobody else would. Most importantly remember we have no rules or procedures changing power, we are only representatives of the racer. Trust me when I tell you we represent the opinion of the majority voiced to us whether we personally agree or not, I know I do.
He is, His name is David Rampy. He is the baddest out there when it comes to continued performance, skill and hard work year after year no matter what rules package!
