The personal index system was started to keep someone else from destroying your index...........period. Getting index back every year for the mistakes that you made is ridiculous, the whole backbone of this class is how bad do you want the win light & what are you willing to give up in exchange for it. You take it you own it. not competitive anymore? find a new combo to run! This talk of turning the class into Obamacomp is just plain sad, maybe you'll get a free cell phone with index every year.
P.I. C.I. Mineshaft
- Thread starter Joey arrowsmith
- Start date
Well said Doug, This is the best system we've had. Racers need to have some restraint or live with their choices.
I understand what you guys are saying and that works well for the racers that have the money to do so. What Shaun is suggesting would Atleast keep me personally in the game a lot longer as in a 2-3 years I’d be able to run G/AA again. I don’t have the funds to just switch classes/combos whenever I want to.
The system has worked great as intended but it also has not brought many new cars to the class, a class which has lost 10-15 cars a year over the last 10 years on average. We as a whole need to figure out what will help attract new cars to comp.
I’d suggest to anyone that wants to, reach out to fellow racers who might have a car that fits closely into a comp category and find out what it would take for them to race with us.
The system has worked great as intended but it also has not brought many new cars to the class, a class which has lost 10-15 cars a year over the last 10 years on average. We as a whole need to figure out what will help attract new cars to comp.
I’d suggest to anyone that wants to, reach out to fellow racers who might have a car that fits closely into a comp category and find out what it would take for them to race with us.
Basically, you would start the season with a soft index/fast car.. beat your index up.. then wait till the end of the year to get it back. If you beat it up really bad, maybe you might have to wait a little longer.
With this plan, there is really no incentive to have to make your car faster ever.
Maybe I'm thinking this through wrong, but this is basically just a seasonal long-game bracket race.
On top of that, classes that have a relatively hard/tight index will be basically never come back to life, since the softer indexes will never beat themselves up and adjust to a less competitive position. This basically undermines the index control system that has historically kept parity between all the different classes.
I would ask then what the reasoning was this past year to give some index back? Maybe a couple reps from last year could answer that question.
Its not about giving P.I. back, its about having a rule plan in place and following it ever year. If you want to never give P.I. back and you own it for life, that is fine, do it. The issue with that is NHRA will randomly give index back this year, 2 years or 5 years from now with no real warning. Which in that case never fixes the rout cause of the issue and doesn't really help anything. Just like when NHRA decided to give P.I. back this year after we all have been playing for 5-6 years under the assumption we wont get it back. OK fine, then do it every year and leave it at that. Do it every other year or every 5 years, just have something in place and stop the random changes.
All good points but its not like these guys are not hit and we act like all these people can go over .61 which is not the case. its all based on the altitude you run in. And its not like class indexes don't get hit. Since P.I. has been in place there has been 49 different class indexes hit.
Hard to know if it would be good for the class or not. I know it wont benefit me at all. Do you really think me getting .01 is going help. I still got to 'work on my shit', as people think no one does. This will basically help racers that have multiply cars and dragsters laying around and racers that can switch classes by just changing the letters on there hood scoop. And in some cases it will help the poor guy that went -.70 under in 1.00 correction factor but in the past can only go -50 under in 2000 feet air.
I guess I'm just a dumb ass, but I didn't think we had an issue with the way the C.I.C or the P.I was working......Car counts are up in most cases, I haven't heard of any bitching or complaining (no more than usual anyways) So what gives???
My issue with all of this is, It looks like a back-room deal is brewing with not involving the Division Reps for our class. Am I wrong to think that this is a situation that should be discussed between the reps and the racers in the class?
Just leave it alone and continue to let the Index's and the C.I.C to work, It ain't broke, no need to fix it.
My issue with all of this is, It looks like a back-room deal is brewing with not involving the Division Reps for our class. Am I wrong to think that this is a situation that should be discussed between the reps and the racers in the class?
Just leave it alone and continue to let the Index's and the C.I.C to work, It ain't broke, no need to fix it.
That was my other point. Seems like the people calling and the most vocal are the ones that want the rules changed for themselves, not for the benefit of the class.
I don't have the answers and am not sure what direction, if any.
I do know, in theory the C.I.C. systems works, the P.I. works, and class indexes that are getting hit are down.
If there is a better system out there I am for it, it it is good for the class, and if it hurts me, so be it, I will deal with it.
You guys sure are getting awful worked up over one guy’s statement that changes were coming. Even the reps are saying there has been no discussion.
Troy Galbraith
Troy Galbraith
Good to see you posting Troy!
Because NHRA has gone behind the SRAC reps before so what stops them this time? This is a perfect example of the racers not trusting NHRA. For some reason certain racers have more pull than the SRAC reps. If NHRA actually listened to the SRAC reps and followed their collective opinion, then the racers might trust the NHRA. Two-way street!
The system in place now is as good as it's ever been. The CIC restoration that was implemented this year wasn't necessarily a bad thing, but if it's something that is going to be considered going forward, I don't think it should be done every year.
I've said it before, and I'll put it out there again.. when PI was brought to the table years back, I totally believed that it would work very well for those racers on the shelf who may have no longer been competitive because of one or two fast cars in there class, and not having the financial ability to change classes or combinations.. some might remember that I actually publicly fought for PI.. unfortunately, this proved not to happen, those cars remain on the shelf, and I believe the PI system has done more harm than good.. could just be me, BUT.. at least NHRA has decided to start chipping away at the PI hits, and helping some racers out.. this actually will be keeping a few racers, that I know, around for a while longer.. it would be nice for NHRA to get together with SRAC reps for a review after each season to determine if adjustments are warranted.. I really don't believe that PI was intended to be permanent, but now seems to be.. I don't see why it shouldn't be erased after every season..
Some PI has been taken due to driver inattention, BUT, a lot has been taken by those trying to win an event, and those racers know the consequences of their choice to win at times.. making mistakes can easily happen, and there is a penalty for that.. I don't think anyone should be penalized forever.. with that in mind, my question might be, which is more beneficial, to take .01 or .02 in class index, or be down .07 to .09 in PI season after season.. in my experience, it's seems easier to find that .01 or .02, than it is to make up almost a tenth..
NOW, I'll draw everyone's attention back many years on this forum, when the phrase "NON COMP RACER" was phrased, and some folks decided that "THOSE" people should not be included, or have the ability to comment.. well I'll be damned if I just didn't see that again..
Back then, it was determined that a "former" team owner, "former" driver, "former" crew chief, "former" crew person, and actually, anyone who is recognized as a member of this forum, has a voice.. because one doesn't like another's opinion, maybe just can't engage in truthful debate, or doesn't agree that what goes on pasta is sauce or gravy, does not give that person the right to attempt to silence a member who is not currently a Comp car owner or Comp car driver..
While concerned, I'm not offended, as I take it from where it comes.. I'm more concerned that one believes that their superiority complex is bigger than mine.. ROFLMFAO!!!
Some PI has been taken due to driver inattention, BUT, a lot has been taken by those trying to win an event, and those racers know the consequences of their choice to win at times.. making mistakes can easily happen, and there is a penalty for that.. I don't think anyone should be penalized forever.. with that in mind, my question might be, which is more beneficial, to take .01 or .02 in class index, or be down .07 to .09 in PI season after season.. in my experience, it's seems easier to find that .01 or .02, than it is to make up almost a tenth..
NOW, I'll draw everyone's attention back many years on this forum, when the phrase "NON COMP RACER" was phrased, and some folks decided that "THOSE" people should not be included, or have the ability to comment.. well I'll be damned if I just didn't see that again..
Back then, it was determined that a "former" team owner, "former" driver, "former" crew chief, "former" crew person, and actually, anyone who is recognized as a member of this forum, has a voice.. because one doesn't like another's opinion, maybe just can't engage in truthful debate, or doesn't agree that what goes on pasta is sauce or gravy, does not give that person the right to attempt to silence a member who is not currently a Comp car owner or Comp car driver..
While concerned, I'm not offended, as I take it from where it comes.. I'm more concerned that one believes that their superiority complex is bigger than mine.. ROFLMFAO!!!
Other comp. racers should not put the entire blame on cars sitting on the shelf because of index control or lack of it.. In todays world there are a lot of other factors to consider. like economy, AGE , lack of good help, cost of todays travel, etc. etc., there are a lot of factors involved as to why many cars are sitting.. I think what Roger Brogden and other divisions are doing is helping in a big way , but it is going to take time to workout. I have heard Pro-Stock teams in the pits talking about running comp. cars..Leave the system in place and donot muddy the water......
Charlie, I assume your reference regarding superiority complex is in reference to my opinion of what I think is best for all of us who work hard at preserving Comp. I just think its important for those of us that spend a lot of money , Time, travel , and assemble a competent crew should have some input into what happens in the class. Thanks for your opinion. I assume your building a car to experience all that goes into racing Comp.See you soon !!!
So , if the rumors that I'm hearing are true (Again, I said RUMORS) how will any of this benefit the bottom half cars??
How will the guys and gals that are on the edge of being competitive, continue to show up? The system that is in affect currently gives the bottom half cars a chance when the CIC starts coming into effect in the later rounds...The proposed RUMORS eliminates any chance of those cars having any chance at winning...Is that what is best for the class ????
How will the guys and gals that are on the edge of being competitive, continue to show up? The system that is in affect currently gives the bottom half cars a chance when the CIC starts coming into effect in the later rounds...The proposed RUMORS eliminates any chance of those cars having any chance at winning...Is that what is best for the class ????
I made an inquiry last evening to see if their is anything in the pipeline for change. I was told that what we are hearing is just rumors and there has not been any formal discussions of change. It sounds to me that the rumor has been started by 1 person and has spread like wild fire. I personally don't think that NHRA would want to see car counts go down . I feel any change to the current system that would include reduction to index's would reduce car counts. Let's hope things stay as is. Their is plenty of support for just leaving things alone.
It sure would be interesting to know what the back door meeting that didn't include the SRAC reps was about & what was discussed and for who's benefit?????????????????
Mike Foster
Comp 5292
C/DA & B/DA
Mike Foster
Comp 5292
C/DA & B/DA
Your assumption is correct, Todd.. the person pictured to the left is looking at you, and even seems to be chuckling..
Hopefully, you will work in the best interests of Comp Eliminator, especially those card carrying Comp Eliminator racers in D1.. BUT, your earlier comment claiming to be "against" an issue is concerning.. not that I'm ever made aware of anything in the D1 Comp World, even though I have a Comp license and get an EKG every 2 two years, I'm certainly not aware of any D1 discussions, or debate, that would allow the D1 representative to be against anything, without getting that direction from the D1 membership..
While being involved with several Comp teams, owning, driving, and wrenching on many different Comp cars, including, but not limited to, A/ED, A/EA, L/AA, H/EA, C/ED, A/DA, A/SR, B/SR. C/SR, D/EA, I/AA, F/D, F/ED, and B/AA to name a few, I'm well aware of time, cost, and the need for a "competent" crew.. I've even been involved with World and Divisional championship teams (IMAGINE THAT!!).. but thanks for reminding of how long I've actually been involved in Comp (WHO KNEW??).. I'm sure you will agree that I've earned my voice, and opinions.. so I'll be sure to continue to share..
So, as you can see, which hopefully reinforces what you already knew, I have already experienced all that goes into Comp racing, without the need for your invitation to build another Comp car.. dragracer57 hit all the major points on the head regarding the concerns of running Comp in the future.. BUT, as you may already be aware, there are irons in several fires, fingers already in several pies, and if it fits into Comp, I'll be sure to let you know..
I've been on hiatus from NHRA events for the last 2years, but plan on a 2024 return, SO YES, you may see me soon... ROFLMFAO!!!
Hopefully, you will work in the best interests of Comp Eliminator, especially those card carrying Comp Eliminator racers in D1.. BUT, your earlier comment claiming to be "against" an issue is concerning.. not that I'm ever made aware of anything in the D1 Comp World, even though I have a Comp license and get an EKG every 2 two years, I'm certainly not aware of any D1 discussions, or debate, that would allow the D1 representative to be against anything, without getting that direction from the D1 membership..
While being involved with several Comp teams, owning, driving, and wrenching on many different Comp cars, including, but not limited to, A/ED, A/EA, L/AA, H/EA, C/ED, A/DA, A/SR, B/SR. C/SR, D/EA, I/AA, F/D, F/ED, and B/AA to name a few, I'm well aware of time, cost, and the need for a "competent" crew.. I've even been involved with World and Divisional championship teams (IMAGINE THAT!!).. but thanks for reminding of how long I've actually been involved in Comp (WHO KNEW??).. I'm sure you will agree that I've earned my voice, and opinions.. so I'll be sure to continue to share..
So, as you can see, which hopefully reinforces what you already knew, I have already experienced all that goes into Comp racing, without the need for your invitation to build another Comp car.. dragracer57 hit all the major points on the head regarding the concerns of running Comp in the future.. BUT, as you may already be aware, there are irons in several fires, fingers already in several pies, and if it fits into Comp, I'll be sure to let you know..
I've been on hiatus from NHRA events for the last 2years, but plan on a 2024 return, SO YES, you may see me soon... ROFLMFAO!!!
Something to consider.....
Extend Mineshaft to include first round. If half plus 1 run -.61 or more under then declared mineshaft. Would take away the argument and also take away need for end of year adjustments. If you run faster than -.65 you own it and rightfully so. It works pretty well the way it is but occasionally the weather does turn during an event. Thoughts?
Extend Mineshaft to include first round. If half plus 1 run -.61 or more under then declared mineshaft. Would take away the argument and also take away need for end of year adjustments. If you run faster than -.65 you own it and rightfully so. It works pretty well the way it is but occasionally the weather does turn during an event. Thoughts?
