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Personal Indexes

429 K/AA Old Dude
I have never heard of such boo hooing and crying and bullshit in my life. Al said it best... They need to take 3 tenths away and let everybody race and go to a 16 car field or an 8 car field and let the real Comp racers race and the cry babies and the people that don't race stay home and post. I'll be there as long as I can and Al will be there and the rest of the real Competition people will be there and the rest of you have a sucker.........
 
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Ray,
I know I'm a whining crying boo hooer who needs a sucker, but try to stay on topic if you can, this thread is about if personal should be given back or not. If you look back in my history as a crybaby who needs a binky, you will see that I have agreed with the sentiment that comp needs to be more competition based. I wouldn't argue that for a second. The question here is should NHRA give back their personal or not. As I wipe my tears away, dust off my B/D that I don't race and suck on my sucker, I tell you that they need to give back the personal. If they don't, people will quit. At that point- take 3 tenths off and race. Take 6 tenths off and race. But to have guys who actually raced their cars and raced to win be penalized while a newcomer or class hopper gets a tenth softer index is INSANE. good luck finding an 8 car field in 5 years when all that is left is awesome inline 3 cylinder cars.
 
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So what REALLY needs to happen is get rid of the whole personal index crap and go back to the way it was... You know, the way it worked for YEARS... I also firmly think they should take that .10 back. (.20 would be better!) A GOOD run in comp should be .50 under, not .70 like it is now!
 
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That is so true. A good run should be fifty under. That way you can work on your shit if you are thirty under until you are fifty under and not have to worry about your index getting hit. The fast guys are still faster and the slow guys have somewhere to try to get to. The rules try to make a slow guy think he is fast.
Clark Smiley
 
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429 K/AA Old Dude
Brian:
Bring your race car back out and quit whining. The cry babies got the personal indexes instituted so let's live with it. You can't keep giving index back. It takes years to get all the classes in line and here they come trying to save Comp supposedly and all they are doing is screwing it up. People will change classes to get an advantage. That's why there is a (1) class switch. I can live with that but I'm pissed every time they give index back. The real Comp racers want to race. Take 3 tenths away and when you go more than 50 under you lose it and stop all this bullshit........ I bet your Dad would have agreed with me as he was a real Comp racer.......
 
Can someone please tell me where in the rule book it says that personal indexes will be reset at the end of the year? Oh wait, it doesn't...but you have people that made a conscious effort or a mistake and hit their PI, who are crying to get it back and they actually expect to get it back?!

I was one of those people who hit their PI, but that was on me and I own it.
Giving a tenth back was a HUGE mistake. If you raced this year, you saw how much more of an emphasis was put on luck as a result, because now everyone was fast and if you didn't catch a redlight or an opponents misfortune, you were screwed!
Giving PI back would just be repeating that mistake. I'm also gonna go out on a limb and say that many of those wanting PI back were the ones that got xmas gifts of up to .05 back a few years ago! When is enough enough?!

As AL said, work on your shit! I was working on mine last weekend and had a fire, car sustained a lot of damage. So now, I'm waiting to see how this all gets decided before I chose to reinvest back in Comp or just go away as a result of people continually giving into all this nonsense. The Ficco's (real racers who supported this class for decades) quit as a result of this shit and I might be right behind 'em!

I agree with Clark on chopping all the indexes down and just racing, but realistically that isn't going to happen. So how about we just leave Comp alone, many of us aren't happy with the rules changes from this year, but you can't continue to change the rules during the middle of the game.
-Bruno JR
 
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Raymond Martin said:
429 K/AA Old Dude
Brian:
Bring your race car back out and quit whining. The cry babies got the personal indexes instituted so let's live with it. You can't keep giving index back. It takes years to get all the classes in line and here they come trying to save Comp supposedly and all they are doing is screwing it up. People will change classes to get an advantage. That's why there is a (1) class switch. I can live with that but I'm pissed every time they give index back. The real Comp racers want to race. Take 3 tenths away and when you go more than 50 under you lose it and stop all this bullshit........ I bet your Dad would have agreed with me as he was a real Comp racer.......
Click to expand...

Raymond- I was as opposed to personal index as anyone. It's the worst idea they have ever had. I said 2 years ago that they should take 7 tenths away and if you run under your index you hit it. Imagine a guy like Akerman trying to race in D1. He races to win and beats up his own index. Meanwhile next door Doll and Luciano are doing the same thing. At the next race, Al is all beat up and Luciano shows up in the E/DA with a 2 tenths advantage that he didn't have last weekend simply because him and Doll switched cars. It's ludicrous. I am and have always been roundly opposed to personal index and index give backs.

However, everyone whined and cried to do something to help the 30 under cars, so here we are.If they are going to stay with the personal index crap, which they shouldn't, everyone needs to be reset to the same standard to start every year. Otherwise guys who race to win will be screwed and will leave the class. That was the question posed in the thread, and that's what I was answering.

Bruno, show me in the rule book where it says personal indexes will not be reset at the end of the year. That is the whole problem here. There is no rule on it.
 
429 K/AA Old Dude
Bruno:
My God that was well said. You have a lot more practice than I on the speaking front. Don't quit bro..... I marvel at all the engineering that has taken place in Comp over the years and it would be a crying shame if that was lost...
 
Bman 353 said:
Can someone please tell me where in the rule book it says that personal indexes will be reset at the end of the year? Oh wait, it doesn't...but you have people that made a conscious effort or a mistake and hit their PI, who are crying to get it back and they actually expect to get it back?!

I was one of those people who hit their PI, but that was on me and I own it.
Giving a tenth back was a HUGE mistake. If you raced this year, you saw how much more of an emphasis was put on luck as a result, because now everyone was fast and if you didn't catch a redlight or an opponents misfortune, you were screwed!
Giving PI back would just be repeating that mistake. I'm also gonna go out on a limb and say that many of those wanting PI back were the ones that got xmas gifts of up to .05 back a few years ago! When is enough enough?!

As AL said, work on your shit! I was working on mine last weekend and had a fire, car sustained a lot of damage. So now, I'm waiting to see how this all gets decided before I chose to reinvest back in Comp or just go away as a result of people continually giving into all this nonsense. The Ficco's (real racers who supported this class for decades) quit as a result of this shit and I might be right behind 'em!

I agree with Clark on chopping all the indexes down and just racing, but realistically that isn't going to happen. So how about we just leave Comp alone, many of us aren't happy with the rules changes from this year, but you can't continue to change the rules during the middle of the game.
-Bruno JR
Click to expand...

Bruno,

Spot on!
 
Bman 353 said:
Can someone please tell me where in the rule book it says that personal indexes will be reset at the end of the year? Oh wait, it doesn't...but you have people that made a conscious effort or a mistake and hit their PI, who are crying to get it back and they actually expect to get it back?!

I was one of those people who hit their PI, but that was on me and I own it.
Giving a tenth back was a HUGE mistake. If you raced this year, you saw how much more of an emphasis was put on luck as a result, because now everyone was fast and if you didn't catch a redlight or an opponents misfortune, you were screwed!
Giving PI back would just be repeating that mistake. I'm also gonna go out on a limb and say that many of those wanting PI back were the ones that got xmas gifts of up to .05 back a few years ago! When is enough enough?!

As AL said, work on your shit! I was working on mine last weekend and had a fire, car sustained a lot of damage. So now, I'm waiting to see how this all gets decided before I chose to reinvest back in Comp or just go away as a result of people continually giving into all this nonsense. The Ficco's (real racers who supported this class for decades) quit as a result of this shit and I might be right behind 'em!

I agree with Clark on chopping all the indexes down and just racing, but realistically that isn't going to happen. So how about we just leave Comp alone, many of us aren't happy with the rules changes from this year, but you can't continue to change the rules during the middle of the game.
-Bruno JR
Click to expand...

Thank you for better putting into words what I've been trying to say all along.
 
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Brian Landies said:
Bruno, show me in the rule book where it says personal indexes will not be reset at the end of the year. That is the whole problem here. There is no rule on it.
Click to expand...

There is a section on year end CIC reviews. Even with the "inflation" of the tenth given last year, the way I see it, no one falls into the criteria for a year end increase.

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/nd.net/nd-editions/Rulebook/2016_NHRA_Rulebook/index.html#/56/

http://www.nhra.net/2013/images/NHR...ompetition Index Control changes for 2016.pdf
 
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Every one of us knew at the beginning of the year to protect that .10 and our personal index we were given; If it was said that we would be getting back what personal we had taken in 2016, every race outcome would have been different. Its clear as day that most people that took personal want it back, they simply weren't thinking about there future but simply going rounds. Im not saying personal indexes should be given back, nor saying kept the same. I barely raced this year, didn't take personal index, don't really care, so I don't have a dog in this fight. Its a bumm deal that NHRA didn't tell us racers what the rules would be for 2017, one would guess that it would have changed the whole 2016 outcome though if they did.

Mark Lelchook
D/ED
 
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I will not get into personal opinions because I truly feel all this dissension is counter productive in the preservation of Comp and in fact drag racing as a whole.

I am going to say is that I hope NHRA leaves the rules package alone for at least 2 years to allow current racers to adjust and adapt, allow new interested racers to join in and allow dormant racers to come back.
Anyone who shares my sentiment should email NHRA.
 
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Raymond Martin said:
429 K/AA Old Dude
I have never heard of such boo hooing and crying and bullshit in my life. Al said it best... They need to take 3 tenths away and let everybody race and go to a 16 car field or an 8 car field and let the real Comp racers race and the cry babies and the people that don't race stay home and post. I'll be there as long as I can and Al will be there and the rest of the real Competition people will be there and the rest of you have a sucker.........
Click to expand...

Ray if they did that there would only be 8 cars racing. I'd be staying at home for sure, or going back to Stock Eliminator.

I think Bruno is spot on. giving index back changed nothing but the qualifying sheet. Those that were fast were just stupid fast and those of us that were struggling are still struggling.
 
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Did the Personal Index help or hurt Comp ? 5 cars in 1 class , P I is a good system .You are sitting at home watching your class getting hit in some mineshaft.......wait a minute I'm OK . The P I works....... but the tenth back is just plain wrong . Comp is tough as it should be , you get a tenth back on the dyno , not from a pencil .
 
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This is my second season in comp so I would still consider myself a newcomer compared to most. My stuff is not fast enough yet to hit PI or the class index but it is a constant work in progress. I try hard to improve every time we unload at the race track or head to the dyno and the results are slowly showing improvement. One of the things that I am most concerned about with all of the time, effort and money spent is whether there will be a class left to race in when I do get this combination worked out and running fast. I agree where Al mentioned that whether you like the PI system or not, at least NHRA was willing to try something to grow the class. Going forward whether NHRA decides to add or take away index my focus will remain the same - making the car as competitive as I can each time I make a pass.

Brian Seibenick
3137 F/DA
 
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I'm also a newcomer to Comp. And I have no clue any of the behind the scenes stuff that goes on. Did the racers ask for a .10 back? Did the racers ask for personal index? Or was this just something that NHRA decided to try to help increase car count in Comp?
 
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