If Sunoco bought the rights to get racers to buy their fuel it has totally backfired on them.. Very few people want to use it now.
Sunoco vs. VP Fuel
- Thread starter Frank Aragona Jr.
- Start date
How many fuels , gas , are available , leaded gas for racing , hard to believe they would be that much different.....let alone cause a misfire or a bog.....
Go the the VP link, look at the different fuels there. If you click on the spec sheet, last column on the right, you can look at the RVP and vaporization properties of different fuels. And I can hear a noticeable difference when testing carbs between C12 and Q16, the better vaporization properties of Q16 will run much smoother when it's cold. Smoother means less misfires and/or more complete combustion.
http://www.vpracingfuels.com/master-fuels-table
Better vaporization leads to more even distribution and a more even burn. EFI won't be as affected where distribution is concerned, but it can still have an effect on how homogenous the mix is going into the combustion chamber.
You can see by the NHRA/IHRA Acccepted Fuels List that there are a number of choices for racing fuel. And there are a lot of differences between brands and blends of leaded race fuel. Each race fuel company, just like each cam or piston manufacturer, has it's own idea of what will make the most power and torque in every application. And those ideas are based on lots of testing and on science.
But since each company has a different idea of the best fuel for each application, there are tuning differences involved, some very minor, some larger. And that's what you're seeing here in the current problems with the new fuel supplier. A different tune up is required, and once that tune up is finalized, the power levels should be very similar to the old fuel. The Renegade Racing Fuels, while not allowed in Pro or Comp classes, would make as much or more power and torque, but would require a different tune up as well.
However, Comp, like Pro Stock, is given only one choice while other Sportsman classes has an array of choices. Comp doesn't have the Pro Stock budgets.
I may be wrong, however, I can't recall a single Comp team that was involved in the testing of the SR-18 fuel with Sunoco. Lots of teams purchased their own fuel without the help of Sunoco and they their own testing without the assistance of the manufacturer.
Good comments, however, your statement may also imply that the Comp racers have lost their touch in tuning and flogging their engines. As as shared by others, some have lost power, and others have even damaged their engines trying to regain the power levels they had with VP C25.
Similar gains to the VP C25 fuel? A racer would expect the Sunoco fuel to be at least +/- 1% or better in performance when compared to VP C25 fuel.
Let me start out by saying, in my opinion, i don't believe any supplier should be able to force the racers to use only their product simply by writing a check to the sanctioning body. It puts racers in a bad position as we've seen by the posts on this subject. If a manufacturer wants to be the title sponsor, it would be a better idea for them to focus on signage and other proven methods of getting their name in front of potential customers. Racing is competition, and that competition should also extend to the parts and pieces of the cars themselves. Maybe racers should have a voice in these things, but for now, they just have to go with the flow.
As was brought up earlier, a manufacturer who signs on as title sponsor wants to get as much for their money as possible. That also means getting as many people as possible to purchase their products. There is more to be made from selling high end race fuels, so you would want every car that uses high end fuels to have to use yours. That's just good business. Comp racers should have the same choices as the other class, but from a fuel supplier standpoint, it's easier if everyone has to use your products.
I don't think anyone lost their tuning skills. And i'm sure that racers and/or engine builders were brought into the development of the new fuels. But like switching brands of tires, there is a difference in design and function. So it takes a different set up to get the same performance. But i have no doubts that the racers in Pro Stock and Comp will figure out the new tune up very quickly.
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How do you tune to a moving target? Each time we buy fuel now it might need a different tuneup.... We got enough stuff to worry about besides getting a bad batch of fuel!
Also, I was just told that NEW unopened 5 gal pails of SR-18 failed fuel check at Boise.. Bought from the place I WAS going to buy fuel from to go to Mission in three weeks. Now what the heck am I supposed to do?
I can't really comment on the consistency of the new fuel, but i've heard and read numerous complaints over the years concerning other brands of fuel failing fuel check right off of the truck. It could just be rumor, it could be in the way the fuel is checked, it could be in the way the fuel is handled. This is making the fuel supplier look bad, so i'm sure they're doing everything they can to make sure the product is consistent, and that the fuel is being checked and handled correctly.
As i mentioned before, this same issue came up about 15 years ago when a fuel manufacturer bought up the rights to be the exclusive fuel supplier. At that time there were a number of race fuel brands being used in Pro Stock and Comp. And when racers were told they only had one to use, it was a bit of a panic. It took a little while, but eventually the exclusive supplier came up with a product that worked.
As i mentioned before, this same issue came up about 15 years ago when a fuel manufacturer bought up the rights to be the exclusive fuel supplier. At that time there were a number of race fuel brands being used in Pro Stock and Comp. And when racers were told they only had one to use, it was a bit of a panic. It took a little while, but eventually the exclusive supplier came up with a product that worked.
Fellow racers I'll tell you again all the fuel on the west coast is out if same batch The fuel was shipped to Paul Oil in Modesto then that batch of approx. 3000
gal was repackaged in 55,s and 5 gal pails the basic fuel is not any different just the handling which was /is making it not check . I only know this because I went to Small oil in auburn and got Steve Small to bring some in for our divisional and local racers. Then at Vegas one pail passed and one did not so meet with Mark Paul ,owner Paul oil and with Sunoco reps, along with NHRA tech official Tim white.
Again Some are making it work, I did hurt some valves at Vegas and waiting for new to put back together but i cant say if it was fuel or me making a bad discussion ,there was no evidence of detonation
Dino Kost
B/da 618
gal was repackaged in 55,s and 5 gal pails the basic fuel is not any different just the handling which was /is making it not check . I only know this because I went to Small oil in auburn and got Steve Small to bring some in for our divisional and local racers. Then at Vegas one pail passed and one did not so meet with Mark Paul ,owner Paul oil and with Sunoco reps, along with NHRA tech official Tim white.
Again Some are making it work, I did hurt some valves at Vegas and waiting for new to put back together but i cant say if it was fuel or me making a bad discussion ,there was no evidence of detonation
Dino Kost
B/da 618
Mark is correct we purchased 2 5gal cans of SR-18. The SR-18 failed the fuel check right out of the can. NHRA is aware of the issue. The parameters that it failed is consistent with other fuel checks at other races. NHRA has allowed us to continue using the fuel.
Kevin PERKIN - H/A 6869
Kevin PERKIN - H/A 6869
Has anyone tested the other Comp Eliminator approved Sunoco fuels?
The Sunoco SR18 is not the only Sunoco approved racing fuel, the Sunoco Maximal and MAXNOS are also NHRA approved racing fuels.
Nevertheless, for Pro Stock and Pro Stock Motorcycle classes, the only approved racing fuel is Sunoco SR18.
Here is the excerpt from the NHRA Approved Racing Fuels List:
Sunoco SR18
Sunoco MAXNOS
Sunoco Maximal
The Sunoco SR18 is not the only Sunoco approved racing fuel, the Sunoco Maximal and MAXNOS are also NHRA approved racing fuels.
Nevertheless, for Pro Stock and Pro Stock Motorcycle classes, the only approved racing fuel is Sunoco SR18.
Here is the excerpt from the NHRA Approved Racing Fuels List:
Sunoco SR18
Sunoco MAXNOS
Sunoco Maximal
I'll said it once.. I said it again.. I said it again, and again, and again... AND, I'll say it again, the stuff is ABSOLUTE CRAP!!..
NOW!!.. that being said, are teams getting used to it??.. OF COURSE THEY ARE, THAT'S WHAT WE DO.. are teams getting down the track with it??.. OF COURSE THEY ARE, THAT'S WHAT WE DO.. are teams satisfied with the performance of SR-18??.. OF COURSE THEY ARE LYING TO YOU, CAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE DO.. You show me a team that will tell you the truth about anything, and I'll tell you that even they are lying...
Yes, there are a bunch of guys that believe SR-18 is OK for them, but are they on the ragged edge with their combinations??.. NO.. are they as fast as they could be, or should be??.. THEY DON'T REALLY KNOW.. if your new combination made 15 or 20 more this year on SR-18, how much better would it be on C-25.. and how much better would your on-track performance be... HMMMMMMMMM.. kinda makes ya think now, huh??
You can put up all the comparative charts that you want.. you can tell me all of the tuning stories that you want.. I've witnessed Pro Stock motors coming apart with burned pistons.. I've had trouble starting a Comp car in the staging lanes of the Gator Nationals, and I'm not alone on the issue.. many guys questioning 60ft times, bogs, misses, etc, etc.. NAH, must be the gearing, or the launch rpm, or the tires are wrong for the combination.. WOW, changed all that and the 60ft didn't change??.. how could that be??..
If you are hard of hearing, or just have no one to believe in, just take your stuff to the track and ROLL DA DICE.. ya might just be lucky.. is that what Comp racing has become now??.. A CRAP SHOOT!!
Comp Eliminator racing has been put in a bad position because of this fuel issue, in my opinion, and the wishy-washy fence sitters are not going to help solve this situation.. what you will accomplish is getting NHRA to release a statement saying that we are not all on the same page, and have no idea what we are talking about..
Now, THAT BEING SAID, how many of us have actually followed the request of Frank Aragona Jr, and have written to NHRA expressing their stories, or opinions??... HMMMMMMMMM, I hope I'm not hearing that old Simon and Garfunkel tune, THE SOUNDS OF SILENCE...
NOW!!.. that being said, are teams getting used to it??.. OF COURSE THEY ARE, THAT'S WHAT WE DO.. are teams getting down the track with it??.. OF COURSE THEY ARE, THAT'S WHAT WE DO.. are teams satisfied with the performance of SR-18??.. OF COURSE THEY ARE LYING TO YOU, CAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE DO.. You show me a team that will tell you the truth about anything, and I'll tell you that even they are lying...
Yes, there are a bunch of guys that believe SR-18 is OK for them, but are they on the ragged edge with their combinations??.. NO.. are they as fast as they could be, or should be??.. THEY DON'T REALLY KNOW.. if your new combination made 15 or 20 more this year on SR-18, how much better would it be on C-25.. and how much better would your on-track performance be... HMMMMMMMMM.. kinda makes ya think now, huh??
You can put up all the comparative charts that you want.. you can tell me all of the tuning stories that you want.. I've witnessed Pro Stock motors coming apart with burned pistons.. I've had trouble starting a Comp car in the staging lanes of the Gator Nationals, and I'm not alone on the issue.. many guys questioning 60ft times, bogs, misses, etc, etc.. NAH, must be the gearing, or the launch rpm, or the tires are wrong for the combination.. WOW, changed all that and the 60ft didn't change??.. how could that be??..
If you are hard of hearing, or just have no one to believe in, just take your stuff to the track and ROLL DA DICE.. ya might just be lucky.. is that what Comp racing has become now??.. A CRAP SHOOT!!
Comp Eliminator racing has been put in a bad position because of this fuel issue, in my opinion, and the wishy-washy fence sitters are not going to help solve this situation.. what you will accomplish is getting NHRA to release a statement saying that we are not all on the same page, and have no idea what we are talking about..
Now, THAT BEING SAID, how many of us have actually followed the request of Frank Aragona Jr, and have written to NHRA expressing their stories, or opinions??... HMMMMMMMMM, I hope I'm not hearing that old Simon and Garfunkel tune, THE SOUNDS OF SILENCE...
I bought enough fuel in vegas to last us until the Seattle national. Our stuff ran and passed fuel check fine in Boise. With losing a lot of fuel from hole in fuel line and my dad selling 5 without my knowing. Now we only have enough for mission. Is there any way of buying directly from Sunoco? Without having to buy the stuff that doesn't pass from the local dealer?
Ryan.. just an FYI.. SR-18 is reportedly a weeeeee bit short on shelf life, so I would be having it tested at each event you bring it to.. Sunoco may replace it for you at the track with something fresh, but it might not pass either..
But don't worry, if they can't get it to pass, then nobody fails fuel check.. but if some pass, and others don't, are you out??... HMMMMMMMMM, good stuff, huh buddy??
But don't worry, if they can't get it to pass, then nobody fails fuel check.. but if some pass, and others don't, are you out??... HMMMMMMMMM, good stuff, huh buddy??
