Charlotte Index Inconsistencies

Thank you Matt. Your response is the exact reason you were elected as our D5 SRAC rep!

Seriously tho, saying the PI kept people from racing comp is ridiculous! That response doesn’t even make sense. Especially for someone just starting out with the class index. Where is their disadvantage? How are they truly affected by PI until they race?

The true issue for racing Comp is money! Look at how many cars are going to D4 this year. Look at how much money has been raised in D3 and D5 for bonus funds. Money is what we should be arguing about as PI is not even in the radar.

Michael Compton
D/SMA 5010

 

I know it was a long time ago but there was a time when certain racers would enter certain classes within Comp just to destroy the index and handicap their opponents who might not have the resources to have the latest and greatest. I know limiting a driver to 2 classes helped eliminate this as well as the PI system. When a driver makes a mistake - should everyone within that class eat the bullet? I don't think so (case in point B/A a couple of weeks ago - unintentional and painful as hell I'm sure). Back in 98 we were at the Gators with Bart Price and Slavinsky hit the C/EA index in qualifying, he came over to our pits shaking because he was told he would be stabbed if he did it again, those that know, know who said it and know he wasn't bullshiting. People at the track are all friendly and buddy buddy these days but I would be willing to bet if you go back to how it was and someone shits in your sand box, you aint gonna be going to dinner that night or anytime soon How hard would it be for you to list your index on the tech card? NHRA does post weekly everybodies' PI, shouldn't be a difficult task for someone, perhaps the SRAC rep for the division the event is held in to confirm. With the exception of D4, we are talking about maybe 16 cars per event. Also not sure but reading Joeys post, looks like he would like to have it adjusted from -51 to -70 within each race with nothing permanent until -71 during the event. If that is accurate, I don't see that as viable either. As far as qualifying on original index or PI index, I'm in favor of keeping it simple where the racer owns their index for the entire event, changing back and forth only opens the door to mistakes and one more thing to police. I hate fuckin polls but maybe one is due here, if its really 90% that want to see it removed let's put it to the polls but no anonymous shit, name tied to your vote. Thanks for your time.

 

1 201 C/EA Rob Slavinski, Newark OH, 93 Grand Prix 8.264 8.91 -0.646
2 15 C/EA Charlie Greco, Norristown PA, 96 Firebird 8.325 8.91 -0.585
3 309 I/A Ralph Hope, London ONT, 23 T-Ford 8.050 8.63 -0.580
4 231 G/A Mike Saye, Johnston, SC, 92 Cutlass 8.901 9.48 -0.579
5 2349 A/EA David Rampy, Piedmont AL, 32 Bantam 7.509 8.08 -0.571
6 3 D/EA Scott Tidwell, Pinson AL, 97 Firebird 8.505 9.07 -0.565
7 1117 D/A Larry Perkins, Collegeville PA, 93 Cutlass 8.020 8.58 -0.560
8 307 B/A Ed Bennett III, Carleton MI, 63 Corvette 7.411 7.97 -0.559
9 1210 E/SM Jonathan Aloisio, West Chester PA, 92 Cama 8.503 9.06 -0.557
10 1052 C/A Arnie Martel, Tewksbury MA, 97 Firebird 7.712 8.26 -0.548
11 5212 A/EA Doug Engles, Watertown SD, 23 T-Ford 7.539 8.08 -0.541
12 3076 A/ED Robert Bailey, Wabash IN, Spitzer-Pontia 6.831 7.37 -0.539
13 4683 B/SM Brian Self, Durant OK, 92 Camaro 8.843 9.38 -0.537
14 110 B/A David Strouse Jr., Morganville NJ, Cutlass 7.433 7.97 -0.537
15 33 I/A Steve Ambrose, Woodhaven MI, 23 T-Ford 8.093 8.63 -0.537
16 3069 E/D Bob Andrews, Somerset MI, 88 Dragster 7.673 8.20 -0.527
17 2067 D/ED Randy Daniels, Grantsboro NC, Spitzer-Chev 7.629 8.15 -0.521
18 252 B/A Jerry Hemmingson, Concord NC, 94 Lumina 7.451 7.97 -0.519
19 211 A/EA Glen Treadwell, Sorrento FL, 23 T-Ford 7.565 8.08 -0.515
20 725 C/EA Bart Price, Hayward CA, 96 Pontiac 8.397 8.91 -0.513
21 3693 D/SM Larry Mayes, Greenwood IN, 92 Camaro 8.354 8.86 -0.506
22 346 A/EA Mike Farrell, Louisville KY, 32 Bantam 7.575 8.08 -0.505
23 3718 A/EA Terry Smith, Williamstown WV, 32 Bantam 7.575 8.08 -0.505
24 3679 A/A Dwayne Rice, Grove City OH, 96 Firebird 6.861 7.36 -0.499
25 3185 C/EA Bert Dawson, E. Liverpool OH, 91 Beretta 8.414 8.91 -0.496
26 1182 C/ED Jim Varsolona, Jersey City NJ, Spitzer-Che 7.535 8.01 -0.475
27 2467 A/EA Jim Kimbrough, Pace FL, 23 T-Ford 7.615 8.08 -0.465
28 3647 C/EA Jody Schmeisser, Wadsworth IL, 92 Beretta 8.447 8.91 -0.463
29 2211 C/EA Van Puckett, Lithonia GA, 90 Firebird 8.458 8.91 -0.452
30 1996 AA/A Carnie Fryfogle, Manchester MD, 23 T-Ford 7.249 7.70 -0.451
31 130 A/A Bob Rossi, Woodbridge NJ, 95 Coupe 6.969 7.36 -0.391
32 403 AA/AT Hurley Blakeney, Chester VT, 95 Thunderbir 7.023 7.25 -0.227

--------- Not Qualified ---------

33 1834 B/D Paul Jannoni, Burlington MA, Keir-Pont 7.336 7.50 -0.164

 

This is such a warn out conversation. I really thought two years ago it could be worked out, I was wrong. All I can say when we raced two years ago at Orlando at Elites race funnest comp race ever went to. Lots of us pretty far under know we had to light it up to win first round but knowing we would get it all back Monday morning.
And running off national index not PI. Just ask one guy who was there.
Shane welcome back, true racer and great family.

 

You said get rid of PI, not the CIC completely. That IS the old system that was used before PI was instituted.

 

It won’t get put to bed until our reps actually have a serious poll taken by every comp racer. Like Alan said, show the names of who voted for yes or no.
Off the top of my head I’d say cic at the track like normal, anything after -510. No class hits until -710 or -760 in mineshaft. End of year reviews on runs over -810 in qualifying or eliminations. as well as a racer who had multiple all out runs that were less than -410 to see if his class index needs adjustment. Like everything….. debate away

 

I agree with you as well about money is something we should be arguing about… money brings people out. D4 has had great turnouts so far this year with racers from other divisions heading there to race instead of their home divisions. What happens if brogdon stops giving his money away? Any of our reps going to nhra to get our purses raised?
Why do some divisions have a prorated payout but D7 (from what I hear) pays the full 2k to the winner regardless of how many show up?
We race because we love it but a decent payout would be nice as well. Winning $800 in D5 instead of the full 2k is laughable.
d3 and D5 bonus fund (thanks to Mike) will hopefully fix that problem with the lack of race purses. Hopefully other divisions will see if it helps with car counts and implement the same thing to help the racers get a decent paycheck for their efforts

 

The PI system keeps this small team in the game. As I understand it, helping the small budget team was one intent of PI. We are that team, and it is working in our case.

Ken & Robin

 

I will 100% take the blame for the Charlotte issues. There is a list of excuses I could provide, but they are just that and won't fix what happened or worth the time to type. What I will do is promise that we will do better and try to prevent any of these issues from coming up again.

 

Thanks Mike! Great of you to come on here and take the heat. Appreciate you for that

 

YES SHANE!!.. you have come, and are doing a great job.. CONGRATS!!

My point was that at the time that PI was being proposed, I was in favor of it specifically because of what DE3 is referring to.. individuals can hurt themselves without hurting the overall class.. I believed this to be a great way to get a few racers back to the track.. unfortunately, the folks that I thought would come back, have not.. we can go Division to Division and find at least one or two racers that have taken 8 to 10 in PI, and are now not really as competitive as they would like to be.. while they work on their stuff, and make improvements they still face that 8 to 10 in PI when they get to the track.. their overall class is fine, but they are not..

I was happy to see that racers did get some PI relieved this year, and hope that they will feel, and will be, more competitive.. BUT, if you got back 3, and are still down 7 going into the first round, eventually you'll be asking yourself WHY am I here??.. not everyone has the resources to change class, depending on the car they have..

 

Charlie.you statement holds no water when you say the guy is down 8-10 personal and no longer competitive. So we get rid of personal and he hits the index 8-10 how would that be any different cause he's no longer competive along with the entire rest of his class?

 

I can agree with you in part, Clint, but also disagree.. my point is that there are really good racers out there that have hurt themselves to win a round, or win a race.. they may have a purpose built car, and can not readily change classes.. and they have in turn ended up a 50+ under car, instead of 60+ under car, almost FOREVER.. we're all watching the Q sheets, and can see how a 50 under player is going to fair these days..

In the first round, unless the opponent makes a fatal mistake, these guys are probably going home because of the PI.. we all know a few racers in this situation.. at least I do.. and they are great racers who have been penalized for several years for trying to be winners at one or two races.. they were better off taking 1 or 2 permanent, then 8 to 10 for every race there after..

So, now, without the PI, a racer might take .01 or .02 permanent to win.. I feel that hit is workable, and could be found in performance.. .08 to .10 can't.. BUT, if a racer gets his .08 to .10 PI back, and then goes out and starts whacking his index .08 to .10, he may need to find a good hiding place..

 

Thank you for explaining - as a spectator who LOVES Comp Eliminator, I was just confused as to what was happening and why. I didn't realize it was a manual change in the computer at each event for PI; I just assumed there was one database updated Mondays after each event.

 

The screw up with my index was all NHRA - Surprised/NO.
After Q2 I went to the Tower and informed the Director that my index was incorrect. They made a new ladder and gave me a copy.
They even had the correct ladder at the Draw Booth.
When we up for Rd 1 the NHRA Official had a copy of the old ladder.
May crew chief tried to explain to the NHRA Official several times that he had the wrong ladder and we told him who we were suppose to run.
He wouldn't listen and told us to get in the water box our we were disqualified.
In addition the other 3 racers also tried to tell him but again he wouldn't listen.

 

Man Roger, that is hard to believe, probably the first time that ever happened...... I hope the NHRA was kind enough to say they were sorry..........

 

OH YEAH FOR SURE!