P.I. C.I. Mineshaft

Discussion in 'The Comp Buzz' started by Joey arrowsmith, Oct 21, 2023.

  1. Joey arrowsmith

    Joey arrowsmith Active Member

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    Talking to a few before and after last weekends race. Anyone have pros or cons against raising the limits up .05 to give more breathing room and hopefully more all out passes when the weather conditions are awesome! With how fast everyone’s cars are getting compared to where they were when P.I. First started it makes sense to update it.
    P.I. Would go to -660 instead of -610 and class would go to -760 instead of -710
    This would eliminate the mineshaft rule all together and the ladder games that go with it. Plus it would help with more all put runs to the finish line thus giving people better races to watch.
    And go…..
     
    #1 Joey arrowsmith, Oct 21, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2023
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  2. dragracer57

    dragracer57 Active Member

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    The current system has its flaws, but competitiors understand it. they don,t like it but it is what it is.... Leave it alone and deal with it.. A new set of standards will come with a new set of problems and some hurt feelings for some other racers.... My opinion...
     
  3. Adger Smith

    Adger Smith Active Member

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    Why not just suspend CIC when weather conditions get Too Good?
    Saving index can create problems. Hurt racers and murder cars.
    Dallas was not the first time weather conditions make it unsafe to race.
    The "Unsafe Conditions" were not my words.
    I borrowed the comment from one of the racers involved in the crash.
     
  4. 71mavlouisville

    71mavlouisville Active Member

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    The issue in Dallas is a somewhat common scenario. If qualifying is at 3300ft then a front passes through and 1st round its 600ft how the hell do you deal with that? Then on top of that a LOT of money is on the line. People are trying to get into the CEBF top 10 for $10k and others are trying to win the event for $100k and others are chasing NHRA points. What to do? Tune in to NHRA.tv because it’s going to be a lot of fun.

    I don’t think the rules should change. Why? The system in place is a good system, it works.

    Safety issues!!!! Guy’s, you have to put the tuneup in the car and not leave it up to the driver to save index. Speaking from personal experience. I taught myself a $25k lesson thinking I was able to control the top end while being chased by a 215 mph beast with a bye to final. That did NOT work. I now leave my left foot on the floorboard until the shutdown. There are many ways to slow the car down if you are worried about PI. I don’t think anyone cares about the class/permanent index, G/AA is a perfect example. Work on your turd and make it faster.

    Find some way or ways to make your .76 under car .61 under in great air. Go do some testing. The 1000ft cone is no place to try and figure out what to do. If you are switching classes and absolutely don’t care then lay down a 8.17 with 298 ci in a SM car. That was a hell of a run! As a fan that’s exactly what I want to see.

    Overall: it is up to us to at least look like we know what we’re doing. More rules are just a politicians way of rigging the field in their favor. If I’m forty under then I want you and everyone else to to take PI for the next race. I also want you to be so worried about PI that you let off and let me by!
     
  5. Andrew Holt

    Andrew Holt Member

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    I wouldn't mind seeing some changes to the mineshaft... but not raising the overall threshold.
    1. CIC hits should bump up the same as the Mineshaft adjustment. If the .61 goes to .66.. then CIC threshold should go from .51 to .56.
    2. Seems like the calculation could be tweaked.
    For example... St. Louis 3-7 race....it seemed like that race would/should be mineshaft, but it wasn't. Alot of cars showed it was really fast, yet 1/2 the field was under .6.
    Maybe not take 50% above .6 for the whole field... but some percentage... like middle of the top 80% (like a bowling handicap calculation-ish). Basically, throw out shutoff/bad runs/bottom 20% of the field to calculate the threshold. I think the bottom 20% of some fields really distorts the field midpoint.
     
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  6. Clinton Neff

    Clinton Neff Active Member

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    They need to get rid of this BS mineshaft qualifying deal all together. We need to come up with what we think works whether it be 1.04 or 1.05 correction factor or whatnot. It cant be that difficult to do but weve been talking about this for too long now.
     
  7. gkamp

    gkamp Member

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    When I was on the comp committe I suggested using DA to determine mineshaft. No one liked the idea. Questions were: who's weather station do we use? When do we look at it? Every day, every round, every pair? All good questions. There is no solution that would make everyone happy.

    Greg K
     
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  8. Clinton Neff

    Clinton Neff Active Member

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    Yep absolutely cannot make EVERYONE happy lol
     
  9. Charlie Yannetti

    Charlie Yannetti Well-Known Member

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    If y'all want to change a rule, dump the P.I. rule first.. it seemed to be a possible help when implemented, BUT, didn't help the class much overall.. and no one came back off the shelf.. once that is done, then address the CIC thing, caused it will definitely need to be tweaked the way guys, AND GIRLS, are running today....
     
  10. Joey arrowsmith

    Joey arrowsmith Active Member

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    We all know they will not get rid of P.I. But I think we should all take a vote on raising it .05
     
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  11. badbrad82

    badbrad82 New Member

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    I truly think it’s perfect as it sits.

    If you want to win, you might have to use some personal. If some of the class could be consistently better than .050 then they wouldn’t have to hit it as much.

    Just have to ask yourself what would Rampy do? I can guarantee you he wouldn’t have hit it in Dallas last week and then whooped em all in Vegas.
     
  12. Ryan jvr

    Ryan jvr New Member

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  13. Rodger Brogdon

    Rodger Brogdon Administrator

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    Changes are coming for 2024.
     
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  14. Andrew Holt

    Andrew Holt Member

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    Could you please elaborate what rule changes will be implemented or are being discussed? Talked to my D3 SRAC rep and no news on that front.
     
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  15. Todd Logan

    Todd Logan New Member

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    I'm surprised to see a post that says changes are coming . I am the Div 1 rep and I haven't heard a thing discussed. I have also heard that a few other reps haven't heard anything either. My personal opinion is the program in place has worked the best. Don't see any advantage to making changes unless it's to help the unfortunate who didn't protect there own indexes. In my opinion personal index continues to keep guys racing that wouldn't if there was no personal. I'm 100% against any changes. I can only hope that something as important as this is discussed among the 7 division reps and NHRA not some back room discussion. I have heard rumblings of some changes and I personally think they are self serving to 1 or 2 classes that guys went out and ruined. Anyone that would like to discuss is welcome to call me . 617-799-6391
    Lastly in my opinion if you don't own or currently drive in Comp please keep your opinion to yourself. This should keep negative posts to a minimum.
     
  16. Andrew Holt

    Andrew Holt Member

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    I don't see an urgent need to change any of the rules (maybe a tweak here or there), but I think there is a urgent need to standardize HOW rules are proposed, reviewed, and changed. I don't think the most important stakeholders in our class (drivers/owners current or building for next year) get a democratic voice in the rules.
    In my experience trying to get a change to the rule book, the path to get a rule change proposed is not standard, and the review process is definitely not transparent.
    I would think the first path would always be through SRAC (any rule.. even if proposed by NHRA itself).. and reviewed among the rep (and emailed to the division racers to gain feedback).. but it seems some changes just fall out the sky and bypass that.
     
    #16 Andrew Holt, Nov 13, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2023
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  17. Shaun Vincent

    Shaun Vincent Active Member

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    I don't think there needs to be any changes from what is already in place. But I do think what NHRA did on Jan 1st of this year should be done every year.

    Personal Index Restoration System

    The following system will take place as a one-time restoration for the 2023 season.

    Racer’s Personal Index at End of 2022 Season Amount of Personal Index to be Restored for Start of the 2023 Season


    .02 -.03 hundredths of PI .01 hundredth

    .04 - .05 hundredths of PI .02 hundredths

    .06 + of PI .03 hundredths


    If they do this every year, and this is the set rules ever year, then we all know what the game is. If you hit your index you get a little back. If you destroy your index, in years time you can get a little back.

    If these rules are set in place I believe racers wont be so worried about hitting there index.
     
  18. Joey arrowsmith

    Joey arrowsmith Active Member

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    I would definitely like to see this take place…. It would help ease racers minds when they need to take some to win a round knowing they will get a little bit back for the next season
     
  19. gator mcluskey

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    Then give index back to everyone right across the board, wether they have any personal or not

    Personal index was meant to level the playing field. So those with an advantage either protect it or use it. Might as well have no permanent then. Slate gets wiped clean after every race. Let the strong and wealthy dominate.

    Keep changing the rules as we go and I can tell you it won't add cars to the class
     
  20. Joey arrowsmith

    Joey arrowsmith Active Member

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    Who are you?
     
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