power adder turbo watever

Discussion in 'The Comp Buzz' started by vinnyb, Sep 1, 2012.

  1. vinnyb

    vinnyb Member

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    why does everybody keep stressing over the turbos, superchargers, we all can have one, the teams that run them spent a lot of time and money to get where they are at and god bless them, i dont want to run them anymore than you but guess wat if you want to race you dont have a choice, so the one and only solution is give them a good green lite run them to the end let them take 3or 4 first round, 3or4 second round and the end of the day if they want to win they will take permanent and sooner or later they will be like everyone else ,nhra or the division rep are not gonna do anything so go race your car take your ass kicking and try to let those classes loose index, rome wasent built in a day, so go green and the system will work,or just build one thats the only answer, and you all know it no one wants to admit it thats my take on this situation, you can all bitch you know its going no where
     
  2. Rob Harrison

    Rob Harrison Well-Known Member

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    The class is open to everyone , as you said Vinnie , unless they take the turbo classes out of Comp , the class has every opportunity for any one who wants to try.....I hate it but , we all have the same opportunity......life is like that.....
     
  3. comp 670

    comp 670 Active Member

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    As someone who HAS raced both my opinion is they do not belong in Comp. Most of the turbo indexes have been proven to be .40 or more off (as in close or more then 1 sec under) and sorry, no N/A combo can come near that.. Like was said in the other thread it's taken SIX YEARS to trim down the DD/AT index and it's STILL soft. So all the N/A racers are just supposed to buck up and use the next 2,3 or 4 seasons loseing races to trim down I/D? Thats not right OR fair.... The index should be at least close to begin with!
     
  4. Terry Spargo

    Terry Spargo Member

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    I'm with Mark, he's raced it and he knows....I could spend another 100K on my engines and it would make no difference, the index's with power adders should be realistic from the getgo...:rolleyes:
    Terry A/AP
     
  5. vinnyb

    vinnyb Member

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    again so wat do you u want to do about it,BITCH BITCH!!!!!!nhra dont no how to figure a car with 1400 h.p @ 1800 lbs should go 6.00 to 6.10 so how can they set an index you cant teach an old dog new tricks,and why shouldnt the power added cars run comp its not the owners fault there fast , its nhra,s fault and thats the way it is
     
  6. comp 670

    comp 670 Active Member

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    Vinnie,I'm not bitching. I am stateing my opinion. Nothing will ever change if nobody says anything.
     
  7. Terry Spargo

    Terry Spargo Member

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    Vinny, people that race with me know I don't bitch, cuz as I'm out to have fun and winning isn't everything to me, I admire your success over the years but it should be obvious that a small motor with power adders that produce very quick ets in a doorcar will be much quicker in a lighter more earodynamic vehicle and I would think a veteran racer like yourself would suggest the obvious, another look should be into the index's that are in need of adjustments for the best of the sport.....sorry just my thoughts :)
     
  8. flyin ryan

    flyin ryan New Member

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    Would be a start...

    Power adder cars getting tagged double the index hit an N/A combo does would be a start....
     
  9. Patrick Hale

    Patrick Hale Member

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    I/D vs DD/AT Comparison

    I've been in the business of calculating how much HP it take to run a given ET at a known weight for a couple of decades. The equations really are not "rocket science" Rob and I put together a spreadsheet for everyone on this forum to do their own calculations for every class in Comp a couple of years ago. If you want a copy, just send me an e-mail.

    DD/AT: 7.62 index, 135 cid, 2215 lbs needs 1250 HP to be 0.60+ under. That's 9.25 HP/cid !!!!!

    I/D: 7.30 index, 135 cid, 1555 lbs needs 1150 HP to be the same 0.60+ under. This works out to 8.52 HP/cid.

    NHRA Pro Stock makes 1500 HP ??? That would be 3.00 HP/cid by way of comparison. That's the difference in HP/cid between NA and turbocharged methanol. It's all about how much HP/cid the engine can make.

    Charlie Tanksley said it takes 5 HP to run 0.01 second quicker in a high 6 second dragster. So the I/D should be able to run almost 2 tenths farther under the index than the DD/AT with the same HP.

    I don't know if Bruno ever got a copy of my spreadsheet, and I don't know how much HP he really makes. But I can't wait to see Bruno and Rick Hord in the final at Indy!

    Patrick Hale
    PHale@DragRacingPro.com
     
  10. Terry Spargo

    Terry Spargo Member

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    Patrick, sorry I have the highest respect for you but doesn't starting line torque play a role.. is hp =et to weight that easy as you still got to get the racecar off the starting line. In my case a n/a 714ci 2435lbs with 1170ftlbs of torque transfered through a convertor. I could question that the track wasn't prepped properly to hold the torque as .988 60' and next time .998 60' wouldn't that change the numbers? Sorry as your aware the 60' affects the racecars et.
    Terry A/AP
     
    #10 Terry Spargo, Sep 1, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2012
  11. Patrick Hale

    Patrick Hale Member

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    Terry - yes all the details you mention will make a difference in the calculated HP required. But I tried to only focus on the weight and aero differences between DD/AT and I/D for this Bruno comparison. The HP numbers take into account the Bruno transmission vs a clutch or planetary or normal automatic trans.

    And another big huge thing that I have learned from years at the drag strip: you can always go slower . . . or make mistakes . . . and have parts break . . . even if you've spent more time on the dyno and have more HP than the next guy.

    Comp is not easy !!!!! NHRA Drag Racing is not easy !!!!! Getting the entire combination right, getting down the track on every run, and driving the start & finish line well are just as important as having the most engine HP.

    Patrick Hale
    www.DragRacingPro.com
     
  12. DE3

    DE3 Active Member

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    No one is complaining about the people choosing to run the class. Just that the index is so out of whack. The solution is right in the rule book Vinny. They state right in there that if a class index needs to be adjusted due to performance, they will do it. They gave H/EA .2 back because knowledgable people felt it was unfair. If memory serves me correctly, they took index away from CC/A(AA/SM) because it knowledgable people felt it was way out of line. Both classes were brought more into line with reality. I'll use my old class(C/D) as a comparison vs. DD/AT. In 2007, the C/D index was 7.56 and DD/AT was 8.08. At this moment, the C/D index is 7.36, .2 less in 5 years. The DD/AT index is 7.62, -.45 in the same amount of time. And this is with a damn good driver that tries to protect the index! I'll compare what I think are the best runs in each class. Tanksley has gone a best of 6.70 and I believe it was in Belle Rose, known for great weather and track conditions. That's a got it all type of run and .66 under the current index. Massel went 6.90 in Brainerd, which used to be a factored track, .72 under the current index. How fast could you or anyone else go losing 4 and a half tenths off your index in 5 years? There's even a former turbo driver in the other thread who says they don't belong in Comp.
     
  13. I/D 744P

    I/D 744P New Member

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    I have the best solution for any of you, after Pomona all of my I/D stuff will be up for sale. Any of you can try to run with him.
     
  14. ken reich

    ken reich Member

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    I/d

    It may not be worth much Tom, why would you sell now, maybe you see the index takeing a beating ? :rolleyes:
     
  15. I/D 744P

    I/D 744P New Member

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    I get social security this year(if any left). So that's why its for sale
     
  16. flyin ryan

    flyin ryan New Member

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    History shows...

    Hindsight 'Is' 20/20 & all one has to do is look at B.M.'s record the past few years. Proof's in the puddin' fella's. From the local groudroots racers to Comp., plainfully obvious a good tuner with a good program can turn up the wick on a whim, anytime, anyplace...which is absolutly fine...but not when they are in a class with a sea full of N/A cars that don't have the same opportunity & NHRA is going for :)rolleyes:) parity. Either the vast majority of Comp racers are dumb (they're not) or NHRA's system sucks (it does).

    Mark Wolfe is one guy that 'Does' know the deal first hand. He knows better than most the work those cars are, but he's also very fair in giving his honest opinion of those cars in Comp. I 'Want' those cars in Comp...just not under the current CIC format...history shows it don't work boys...IMO.
     
  17. Stephen Rosen

    Stephen Rosen Member

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    To add some more humor to the turbo issue in Pro Mod the turbo car has the field covered by a dime! Maybe some of you power adders should look at the majority of Comp and realize its a N/A eliminator. The numbers show that many just won't show up to be second! JMHO
     
  18. ken reich

    ken reich Member

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    Numbers

    Just how many active comp cars are there, in all classes,any one have this info?
     
  19. Backyard Bandit

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  20. guitar builder

    guitar builder Active Member

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    bob/tony

    ...was waiting for you to reply, and my take on this is...ya'll been out there, doin tha best ya can, and guess what, ya'll doin jus fine, i'm proud of ya's, ya got nothin to look back on, in ma mind here
     

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