INPUT REQUESTED FROM ALL CURRENT, RETURNING & PROSPECTIVE COMP RACERS

[Frank Aragona Jr.]

As the current CIC rules are now, when 2 cars of the same class meet in eliminations all CIC is discounted and they race off the class index heads up.

For example if the two cars were AA/AT and met in the 2nd round of eliminations where the class index is 6.87 and neither took any CIC in the first round but one of the drivers already had an established personal index for himself of 6.77 and the other did not, the 2nd round race between them would have them heads up off the 6.87.

Some racers would like to see the SRAC bring this up for NHRA to consider changing it to where the heads up rule would not be used in this instance but if both racers did not have a personal index it would remain as is.

As an SRAC representative I like to know the majority opinion of the racers with what is best for the class without anyone being self-serving so myself and my fellow SRAC reps can determine if this would be a good change to ask NHRA to consider.

Please respond if you would agree with this change or rather it as is!

 

[ken reich]

As the current CIC rules are now, when 2 cars of the same class meet in eliminations all CIC is discounted and they race off the class index heads up.

For example if the two cars were AA/AT and met in the 2nd round of eliminations where the class index is 6.87 and neither took any CIC in the first round but one of the drivers already had an established personal index for himself of 6.77 and the other did not, the 2nd round race between them would have them heads up off the 6.87.

Some racers would like to see the SRAC bring this up for NHRA to consider changing it to where the heads up rule would not be used in this instance but if both racers did not have a personal index it would remain as is.

As an SRAC representative I like to know the majority opinion of the racers with what is best for the class without anyone being self-serving so myself and my fellow SRAC reps can determine if this would be a good change to ask NHRA to consider.

Please respond if you would agree with this change or rather it as is!

Simply put, if one racer is down a tenth in personal he has nothing to lose by takeing the stripe by a car length over his opponent , he has already lost the tenth, !!!

 

[cervelli7]

Sounds like another rule for the guys that are slow and don't want to work on their stuff.If you were going to do anything to a heads up race you should make it so there is no cic during that race.Are the demos taking over comp.

 

[cervelli7]

sorry no personal taken during that round or are you going to take the words heads up out of comp

 

[ken reich]

sorry no personal taken during that round or are you going to take the words heads up out of comp

Thats the point its not - HEADS UP !! Think about it!

 

[ken reich]

Sounds like another rule for the guys that are slow and don't want to work on their stuff.If you were going to do anything to a heads up race you should make it so there is no cic during that race.Are the demos taking over comp.

No Cic during that heads up race would make sense, !!! Make comp great again!!

 

[Charlie Yannetti]

If you are not going to use the personal index system in ALL cases, why bother at all... if one guy shoots himself in the foot, I guess he's gonna have a limp... SO BE IT!!!...

Frank's idea of no CIC during a head's up round could be a good, but I'm not sure it's fair if a guy takes say .08 in the first round, but gets it back for the second round because it's head's up, then loses the next round because he gets the CIC hit back... maybe it's because I got bit by this back in the day, and lost in a semi final in a heads up race to a guy who was already down .08... if you take a hit, you own it...

Just seems like a free round to me... just sayn'

 

[projack]

From everyone that i've had conversations with at PRI, Customers, Comp friends, T/S racers, SS racers, etc....which has been quite a lot since the St. Louis National....Everyone has told me that they feel 2 cars in the same class should be able to run a class heads up with no personal/permanent hits. Unless everyone has been giving me ear service, and agreeing with me, and behind my back, they really don't feel that way...you are the first person i've heard to ever mention this nonsense. I feel it should be just like SS and Stock, heads up with no penalty. Let 2 guys run it out and see who the big dog is in the class. From what over 15 actual racers told me, the race between Troy Galbraith and Frank in St. Louis was awesome, and both cars were on the brakes and killed themselves. And that totally sucks that they have to race like that....on the brakes. That's exactly what's wrong with the class. Let guys race. People are tired of seeing people race on the brakes....and it's dangerous! But these rules, and proposed nonsense rules is what's killing the class. So far, we've had 3 races, and combined we still don't have a full field, and it's stuff like this why people are taking their stuff and going to a different playground. But hey, if you read this forum, Comp is alive and well. HA! This personal index and ideas like this is what's killing comp. And people who think this class isn't dying, you might want to switch the koolaid you're drinking. Take 2 tenths away from everyone and let people race again. Maybe people wouldn't have to keep replacing their brake pads all the time.

It's funny how these rule changes and proposed rule changes always benefits the SRAC, and their cronies, but no one else feels that they makes any sense. And I know I'm going to piss a lot of people off....but I'm pissed...so I really don't care!

 

[Jack Issi]

https://www.trophydepot.com/Trophies/C4_1/?gclid=CNzn267KytICFVm1wAodifcE9w#award_type=4

There's some sweet trophies on here for participation awards. All you would need is an entry list for each race and everyone would go home a winner

No...it's a pepper https://images.trophydepot.com//QC/images/products/TRGCHLI.jpg

 

[Frank Aragona Jr.]

AA/AT is AA/AT. No handicaps

Brian,
please explain what you are saying here? I'm not following but it could be me.

 

[Chad Voges]

We have too much charity under the current system, please do not expand it. These runs should be heads-up, same index, no CIC hit.

 

[Greg Schenck]

I'm with Chad but you can get CICed more. I think Troy G and Frank C did it.

 

[projack]

I'm with Chad but you can get CICed more. I think Troy G and Frank C did it.

Frank and Troy did. They hit the class -.01 permanent, and are both down. So for them to go -.61, everyone in b/da will get hit. But with the current rules, you are going to watch between Frank and Troy, go out and kill a class, and watch 15 more comp cars disappear.

 

[Frank Aragona Jr.]

From everyone that i've had conversations with at PRI, Customers, Comp friends, T/S racers, SS racers, etc....which has been quite a lot since the St. Louis National....Everyone has told me that they feel 2 cars in the same class should be able to run a class heads up with no personal/permanent hits. Unless everyone has been giving me ear service, and agreeing with me, and behind my back, they really don't feel that way...you are the first person i've heard to ever mention this nonsense. I feel it should be just like SS and Stock, heads up with no penalty. Let 2 guys run it out and see who the big dog is in the class. From what over 15 actual racers told me, the race between Troy Galbraith and Frank in St. Louis was awesome, and both cars were on the brakes and killed themselves. And that totally sucks that they have to race like that....on the brakes. That's exactly what's wrong with the class. Let guys race. People are tired of seeing people race on the brakes....and it's dangerous! But these rules, and proposed nonsense rules is what's killing the class. So far, we've had 3 races, and combined we still don't have a full field, and it's stuff like this why people are taking their stuff and going to a different playground. But hey, if you read this forum, Comp is alive and well. HA! This personal index and ideas like this is what's killing comp. And people who think this class isn't dying, you might want to switch the koolaid you're drinking. Take 2 tenths away from everyone and let people race again. Maybe people wouldn't have to keep replacing their brake pads all the time.

It's funny how these rule changes and proposed rule changes always benefits the SRAC, and their cronies, but no one else feels that they makes any sense. And I know I'm going to piss a lot of people off....but I'm pissed...so I really don't care!

Hello,
I'm not sure who this is, maybe Mr. or Mrs. Cervelli, but in any case with all due respect, what do you base this theory of the PI system being the cause of killing the class on? I am not drinking or serving any Kool-Aid and I am not being sarcastic or trying to get a rise out of you. I actually want to know and would be very happy to talk to you personally. Please call me at 917-295-2804 anytime you have a minute. If I don't answer please leave a message with your name and number. Or if you feel more comfortable on this forum that's fine also.

I agree that the race between Frank and Troy was great to watch for an onlooker, even myself although its not so great for the racers themselves but we all know the rules going in. I have hurt myself plenty through the years chasing the win light. As you are well aware this is not Pro Stock and never has been.

I am sorry you feel that what I have to say is nonsense but I am a representative of the racers and only interested in doing what's best for the class. A racer called me with his thoughts on this and I am trying to get a feeling from the majority on it for the SRAC. Anyone who has raced in Comp for any period of time knows that it has not been an all out race to the end class unless you want to lose early, for a VERY long time. I have spoken to very many racers and not one has yet to tell me that they are quitting or will not run Comp because of the PI system. It is actually quite the opposite and many have told me they will continue to, will return after time away and are coming in because of the PI system. So please have any of the racers that you mention above contact me or any SRAC rep. Whether you believe it or not we are all trying to do what's best for the class and not ourselves. If the majority of racers don't want the PI system and that will increase participation we NEED to hear from them. I am a second generation Comp racer and I would love for my son to be the third.

I personally resent the comment, "It's funny how these rule changes and proposed rule changes always benefits the SRAC, and their cronies, but no one else feels that they makes any sense". Please give me examples and facts of where this has been the case. I personally have voted for things against my own liking because I vote exactly what the majority of the Comp racers in my division want and its not a guess we actually, vote, have meetings and conference calls to determine such. By the way we as the SRAC do not have any rule making power. I think you are completely overestimating that. We bring to NHRA suggestions from that racers that we all feel are in the best interest of the class as a whole. The SRAC reps are voted in by the racers and anyone can put their name in the hat to be one. Have you? Have you communicated with your rep? If you feel myself, yours or any rep is being self serving at any time please speak up to us or you DD. If that's the case we should not be your reps and if I was proven to do so I would quit myself.

What exactly are you pissed about? I truly want to know because I and many others want you to continue to race with us.

Thank you for your time. I really do appreciate it.

 

[projack]

Hello,


I agree that the race between Frank and Troy was great to watch for an onlooker, even myself although its not so great for the racers themselves but we all know the rules going in. I have hurt myself plenty through the years chasing the win light. As you are well aware this is not Pro Stock and never has been.

.

That's the exact problem. No one knew what the rules were going in. For several races, people asked what was going to happen with PI at the end of the year, and every official asked gave a different answer. Between Indy and St. Louis, you would hear from one person "Jay Hullinger says this, Gracia said that." And by the end of St. Louis, I'm pretty sure, 95% of the people thought we were getting PI back based off of responses from NHRA officials.....including ones that I asked. If they would have just stated it at the beginning, and didn't give the "we'll review it at the end of the season," a lot of things would have been different. But NOT giving strait up answers when asked about PI, that's where a big problem lies in it all.

 

[Frank Aragona Jr.]

If you are not going to use the personal index system in ALL cases, why bother at all... if one guy shoots himself in the foot, I guess he's gonna have a limp... SO BE IT!!!...

Frank's idea of no CIC during a head's up round could be a good, but I'm not sure it's fair if a guy takes say .08 in the first round, but gets it back for the second round because it's head's up, then loses the next round because he gets the CIC hit back... maybe it's because I got bit by this back in the day, and lost in a semi final in a heads up race to a guy who was already down .08... if you take a hit, you own it...

Just seems like a free round to me... just sayn'

I was answering your question which included a AA/AT example. Why should a guy following the exact same rules be down a tenth racing a car in his own class? That would be like Kenny Delco getting a tenth headbstart on Greg Anderson just because he's slower. The CIC system was designed to control runaway indexes due to advancements in technology for a given combination, not to cover for ineptitude within the same combination. If you look at it from the lense of poor old slow AA/At guy who can't run the number it's different than if you look it it from the aspect of maybe the guy down a tenth has raced 25 races in the last 2 years and the guy who is clean just built a brand new car and gets to use the 2016 index because he has never had an opportunity to race and hit his personal index.

For the sake of argument, let's say 5 years from now I build an A/SR. And no one in that time has gone far enough under their personal index to adjust A/SR permanent (to my knowledge there are 0 A/SR cars running). I get to race A/SR off the 2016 index. Let's say 3 or 4 years after that, I've taken a tenth and won a half dozen races, it's now 2024 and I can put my brother in the car and go back to the 2016 index, and race some poor sap who has been working away at it for a decade, and he has to spot Ian a tenth even though Ian might be in a car that's actually faster than his, just not with Ian driving it.

I just think this whole personal index thing is extremely short sighted, and before long someone like Arnie Martel will come in with 3 cars and 15 motors and 3 drivers and never hit an index, just keep switching drivers and cars and motors. Maybe I'm wrong and that would be good for the class.

Brian,
The example I gave is only for a heads up run. The personal index system as a whole is a completely different debate where the pros and cons vary for different people's views.
Just for shits and giggles and please be honest, if time off work and money were not an issue for you lets say you had a sponsorship that would cover the cost for you to run 6 nationals and 8 divisional's in Comp this year would you do it? Don't BS me know........LOL

 

[Frank Aragona Jr.]

That's the exact problem. No one knew what the rules were going in. For several races, people asked what was going to happen with PI at the end of the year, and every official asked gave a different answer. Between Indy and St. Louis, you would hear from one person "Jay Hullinger says this, Gracia said that." And by the end of St. Louis, I'm pretty sure, 95% of the people thought we were getting PI back based off of responses from NHRA officials.....including ones that I asked. If they would have just stated it at the beginning, and didn't give the "we'll review it at the end of the season," a lot of things would have been different. But NOT giving strait up answers when asked about PI, that's where a big problem lies in it all.

You didn't answer most of my questions but I will respond to what you are saying. What you are saying is complete heresay and rumor in my opinion. The rules were posted by NHRA before any race was contested and no where did it say there would be index given back at the end of the year or anytime. I my self fielded dozens upon dozens of calls asking about the rules and how they work. Some people didn't even pay attention to the rules and got to a race and said, WHAT....THATS HOW IT WORKS. Others did not understand the rules and did not bother to get clarification until a race.

Give me the name of the racers that were told by the official with the officials names and I will find out the facts and if one of them said outright there will be index given back I will personally and public ally apologize to you about this case in point. Many times people hear what they want to hear not the actual facts. It sometimes makes them feel better about a decision or mistake they made.

 

[Frank Aragona Jr.]

Frank,
In all fairness, you say that many have told you that they will continue to run comp or return to comp because of the PI system, but the numbers don't show it. You have said for people to contact you personally if they won't run comp or plan to quit because of it, but you expect us to take your word for it that people you talk to feel different. Everyone I have talked to hates it, and they probably won't call you. Apparently everyone you have talked to loves it, but they don't seem to be racing. Consider this a healthy discussion rather than an attack, I know it's hard to discern on the internet

Brian,
I know this is a healthy discussion and never any hard fillings, please. I would not want that.
I don't understand why they wouldn't call me or their rep to say they hated it and will not race because of it. You left that last part out which is key. If you think I am making it up about the guys who like it there's not much I can do. Ask your rep if you trust him. I have told him what's going on in my division and I think our attendance numbers will show if everything works out for these guys. I have 2 new and 5 or 6 returning racers this year. We lost two but I plan to run 2 cars again and so does another owner so that's a wash. You say the numbers don't show it but we only had 3 races in 2 of the 3 divisions with the lowest cars counts. Don't believe me, talk to people. There's a lot going on but in Comp it takes time, you can't just throw it together. Hell it takes 3-4 months to get a crankshaft and sometimes a year for cylinder heads.

 

[Frank Aragona Jr.]

I was talking about heads up runs for some of that post but rambled in to other thoughts too. If I had the money and time, yes I'd be racing.

Exactly my point buddy, if there is this so called killing of the class it is most definitely MONEY not the PI system. For that matter money is effecting all of drag racing.

 

[Frank Aragona Jr.]

Better yet, what if Doll and Luciano just switched cars? They both get all their index back. And for what? To protect all those other poor E/DA racers out there?

Any great racer will tell you to race the rules as they are written. My dad taught me that and one of our best Larry Kopp, RIP told me that a long time ago when I was starting out in Comp.