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Wassup??

They qualify based on how far they run under a national index, then dial in on race day. And with 128 car fields where only 1-2 events per year actually draw that many, you basically have to run the index to get in.

I bet for every Comp guy that has dabbled in TS/TD there is at least 1 TS guy that has run comp. I bet you could count the total number of comp racers that have left the class and run TS/TD on your fingers and have fingers left over when you're done... except for maybe Ian! lol

How many of those guys ran comp seriously before TS/TD came along?
 
We ran SS/DM with our 66 chevy 2 . Grant Lewis ran SS/DM we always went rounds and so did Grant Lewis. Since we could`nt outrun him in a heads up that made it not a bracket race . If you go enough rounds in class racing it ant bracket racing . I almost forgot Buddy Nickens ran that class too . Yes we was a Duck but we was proud and happy ducks . No we did`nt qf at the top not on the bottom either .
 
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Ray Vierheller said:
They qualify based on how far they run under a national index, then dial in on race day. And with 128 car fields where only 1-2 events per year actually draw that many, you basically have to run the index to get in.

I bet for every Comp guy that has dabbled in TS/TD there is at least 1 TS guy that has run comp. I bet you could count the total number of comp racers that have left the class and run TS/TD on your fingers and have fingers left over when you're done... except for maybe Ian! lol

How many of those guys ran comp seriously before TS/TD came along?
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LOL nice Ray
 
With all this being said, I just don't get that warm and fuzzy feeling from low car counts.. wonder what NHRA Big Brother is REALLY thinking??..
 
Ray said how many T/D guys used to run comp . Then why not give them a index call it T/D giv them a class in comp . You could have 2 classes one with a blower and one with with nos . TD and TS has took some of our comp racers then lets take some of theirs . Before we start bitching on index for them how about 6.60 . We still could have a chance for a P/S car class for comp . I belive that would bring in a few more cars . What do we have to lose , we have got to do something .
Talk about counting cars I can count all the D/D on 1 finger I can count all the C/D on 2 fingers all the A/D on 2 fingers . I am not sure but I belive there is only 1 B/D running now .
 
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The very nature of Comp is tough, high tech and complicated, so when it is tried, most often it is abandoned. This strikes at the heart of low car count, not to mention the expense, but I don't get the logic of low car count being the reason to delete it. Comp could be included at every race and no one would know the difference, if there is not a full field, give us 2 qualifying, even less of a burden on the system. T/D , T/S , get 3 cause they are full fields.

Low car count should be the reason to include Comp, not delete it.
 
Economics. Let's look at Seattle last year... 23 cars. 6 cars below the national event average. Let's look at the payout at a National.

First round duck: $0
2nd Round duck x 6 @ $450/ea.: $2700
3rd round duck x 3 @ 550 ea.: $1650
Semis x 1 @ $650 or $700 ea: $650 (based at $650, never been this far at national)
R/U: $1000
Win: $2000

Total payout: $8000

Total entries 23 @ $300 ea: $6900... but wait there's more! Subtract at least 2 guys who got in for free as Aaron Strong was D6 champion and Ellis finished in top 10, so I believe they both had free entry. So knock $600 off the income.

$8000 to pay out, $6300 brought in. -$1700.
 
Ray I might be way off on this but doesn't Lucas Oil fund the payouts for sportsman racing at national events? And "Full Throttle" pays the pro payout? That's how it's posted in the National Dragster. Like I said,I don't know so I am asking.

I do know if your a pro you better have a full throttle hat on if you win and if your a sportsman it's a lucas oil hat so they must be paying some of the payout? Look at what the Pro payout is,there is not way they are funding that off entry fees alone...Or even the Alch classes..
 
Not sure on that one, Mark. I know they both pay money to have us think they do. I also thought a few years ago that since Lucas was supposed to cover the sportsman at the points races, the pay out would be the same at all division races. Wrong there too.

Second round loser at a D3 points race gets $200. Second round loser in D2 and D4 get $75.
 
comp

Just an opinion, but comp needs to add some classes that are interesting and don't cost 10,000 dollars for heads. Just a thought. Look at Knoxville sprints in the 360 spec class versus the 410 open for examples. Just my .2 cents.
 
When someone leaves comp chances are they are not coming back, they had there thrill. Need to go to the front door and open it wide open, there is a larger pool of dreamers and want to be's standing out there looking for a way in. There just does'nt need to be 4 flites of stairs to get there.
 
I am a firm beliver that a lot more guys could run comp . What I see is that most belive that comp cost more than the other classes . T he biggest cost is the motor . For years we built our own motor our own R D . I find it cheaper to buy from Patterson or somebody that knows what will work . The money spent on stuff that won`t work will cost you more . The eng builders that do this ever day is in the know . We have a old motor home to tow with a trailer that was built 1 mile from our shop . I belive that the motor is the most inportant part of our operation . Our car motor clutch transmission and everthing is 8 years old . When the back door of our trailer comes down at Baytown in march the race will be on , if everthing goes well and the air is good we will go 65+ under . Will we win the race probely not the other racers will have a lot to say about that . All we want is a good shot to be in the top half most of the time things don`t go your way . But one thing for sure is if you don`t go you will never win anything .
 
C Tanksley said:
But one thing for sure is if you don`t go you will never win anything .
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Amen Charlie!

I agree about the cost also. I could easily run comp with what I have in my SS operation. Biggest problem for me is that its not a one man show. Definitely need at least one crew person. Then you're relying on someone else when you want to go racing...
 
Travel and driver were the biggest problem for me. Lot's of used stuff pretty cheap to start out the learning curve. Running D5 out of Denver there is one D race there and the rest is all travel expense. Back when we ran comp Denver had two D and Nat race. Douglas Wyo was close for another D race. All high altitude combo. Four races with little travel expense. I think it would be interesting to put together how to start racing comp with a learning operation. Something with dated parts like a PG trans very cheap and cost you a little ET. A combo that would make a -30 to -40 under car on the cheap. IMO
 
C Tanksley said:
I am a firm beliver that a lot more guys could run comp . What I see is that most belive that comp cost more than the other classes . T he biggest cost is the motor . For years we built our own motor our own R D . I find it cheaper to buy from Patterson or somebody that knows what will work . The money spent on stuff that won`t work will cost you more . The eng builders that do this ever day is in the know . We have a old motor home to tow with a trailer that was built 1 mile from our shop . I belive that the motor is the most inportant part of our operation . Our car motor clutch transmission and everthing is 8 years old . When the back door of our trailer comes down at Baytown in march the race will be on , if everthing goes well and the air is good we will go 65+ under . Will we win the race probely not the other racers will have a lot to say about that . All we want is a good shot to be in the top half most of the time things don`t go your way . But one thing for sure is if you don`t go you will never win anything .
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Hey Charlie, when it came to your own R&D, what area of the engine do you feel like gave you the most problems. From an outside perspective I would assume that the heads, cam, intake, combo would have been a bottomless hole to find what the motor needs to run up top. The reason I ask is because I've always thought that building it yourself would be cheaper.
 
cutta said:
Hey Charlie, when it came to your own R&D, what area of the engine do you feel like gave you the most problems. From an outside perspective I would assume that the heads, cam, intake, combo would have been a bottomless hole to find what the motor needs to run up top. The reason I ask is because I've always thought that building it yourself would be cheaper.
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Not cheaper in the end result, if it doesn't run. Unfortunately, HP is not HP.....in Comp, it's that index thing that changes everything. You can have 2 800 HP motors, same cu in, one is -61 under, the other is -51 under, both cost the same to build. The Patterson's and Rick Waters of this world, know the difference, and you have to pay for that. We had Nicken's build us a Buick head 280, bolted it in the car and set the record and RU 1st race, after a while we decided we could do this, so we built a 288, made good HP....it was a stone, never did figure it out.

As a further example of what matters and what doesn't, one dyno session we added plenum volume for several pulls in a row, more volume more HP, we went to the next race all pumped up.....it wouldn't leave the starting line, we invented a word for what it was doing, it cabarbulated. I got Nickens on the phone and he laughed, "you can't mess with plenum volume on the dyno, that's a on track thing, if at all, the plenum volume is a calculation, not a tuning tool" so we took the spacers out and away it went, not fast mind you, but at least got down the track.

If your goal is to build a Comp motor, car, that runs -40 under, then I guess you can build it cheaper yourself....I haven't met a Comp team yet, that would be happy with -40 under.
 
cutta said:
Hey Charlie, when it came to your own R&D, what area of the engine do you feel like gave you the most problems. From an outside perspective I would assume that the heads, cam, intake, combo would have been a bottomless hole to find what the motor needs to run up top. The reason I ask is because I've always thought that building it yourself would be cheaper.
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The most i guess is the heads intake getting the right camshaft . But more than anything would be the cly bore and sealing up the motor . Last year we broke a valve spring and hurt a motor . But most of the time we go all season on a freshup . We do no testing at all, ever run has to count . If we see we can`t win a round we cut it off . On bye runs we take the tree and cut it off and backup . When we warmup we run it at about 2500 rpm untill the motor gets about 120 deg or less .
 
different payouts per round/division

Ray Vierheller said:
Not sure on that one, Mark. I know they both pay money to have us think they do. I also thought a few years ago that since Lucas was supposed to cover the sportsman at the points races, the pay out would be the same at all division races. Wrong there too.

Second round loser at a D3 points race gets $200. Second round loser in D2 and D4 get $75.
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...why does one division pay more and one pays less, what determines the payout like this, I am curious as a FAN
 
guitar builder said:
...why does one division pay more and one pays less, what determines the payout like this, I am curious as a FAN
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cause one div likes their comp racers more than the other:mad: . div 3 and div 1 has more comp cars . I belive div 1 and 3 have more than the rest put together . At one time div 4 would have 40 cars for a div race . One of our div 4 states don`t even have a comp car in the whole state . There is 5 i belive from our state . Texas has always had a lot of comp cars over 60% from Texas .
 
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