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Len Imbrogno: We need some info.

J

Jeremy Tanksley

Member
Aug 26, 2006
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Len, the attention gathered around the 5,5,4 tenths tree has some what mutated itself into a line of questions posed in NHRA's direction. Can you possibly shed some light on this situation by telling us, if you can, what NHRA would be willing to do to reduce the redlights in Comp? It is now obvious to many that a standardized transbrake button will do nothing. I encourage you to pose this question in an upcoming committee meeting. Hell, you guys may decide to deduct 10 points from a driver if he redlights in eliminations. Whatever you guys can come up with or whatever you guys think you can come up with, please do so since the 1 out of 3 redlight percentage is unacceptable. We feel that the 5,5,4 tenths tree will reduce the redlights. We know it won't eliminate redlights completely, but any form of relief would be excellent.

Again, what measures or extremes will NHRA be willing to go to in attempt to reduce redlights? There needs to be a change in comp, and a 33% redlight total is ridiculous and unacceptable. It should be understood that this is not a means of awarding certain drivers with a gift, it is a means of bettering the image of Comp as a whole.

Let US know.
 
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Firstly, Steve, I had not previously seen this particular thread.

Secondly, Jeremy, the issue of adjusting the tree for various classes (such as Pro Stock motorcycle racers asked for in the past) has been discussed and was unanimously voted down by the competition committee. The bottom line is that the tree is a fixed element of our sport and we do not need to start down the road of making infinite adjustments for all the various classes as race car technology changes. The race car, and the driver, are the variable element in the equation, not the tree.

Thirdly, The decision coming from the tech department will not mandate a "none adjustable standardized button". From what I understand there will be an allowable maximum limit of adjustment in the button. Hopefully we can get the tech department to publish the wording this coming week.

Len
 
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Len
Thanks for your quick answer.
Now we can get to work on our cars instead of typing.
Arnie
 
Len Imbrogno said:
Firstly, Steve, I had not previously seen this particular thread.

Secondly, Jeremy, the issue of adjusting the tree for various classes (such as Pro Stock motorcycle racers asked for in the past) has been discussed and was unanimously voted down by the competition committee. The bottom line is that the tree is a fixed element of our sport and we do not need to start down the road of making infinite adjustments for all the various classes as race car technology changes. The race car, and the driver, are the variable element in the equation, not the tree.

Thirdly, The decision coming from the tech department will not mandate a "none adjustable standardized button". From what I understand there will be an allowable maximum limit of adjustment in the button. Hopefully we can get the tech department to publish the wording this coming week.

Len
Click to expand...
Thanks for posting, Len, although I disagree with the basic philosophy, that "the tree is a fixed element of our sport". Technology never stands still , the race car and the driver are constantly adjusting to new technology, especially Comp. I understand your point of making infinite adjustments for all the classes would be difficult (such as the 5 5 4 tree) but there is nowhere in your discussion that prohibits the use of both the ProTree and the FullTree, as in Ray Hadford's presentation. The fixed element still exists but the .400 ProTree, if the competitor chose to use it on his side of the tree, deals with the redlight problem in Comp. As an example of where technology has progressed, how about the 6 second B/A car leaving on a full tree. Unfortunately or fortunately, Comp encompasses the broadest spectrum of classes and it is somewhat difficult to use a blanket answer to any given dilema, not unlike your point about the "not totally without delay button". As far as the adjustments both driver and car have to make, it seems somewhat redundant to back off on the progression of technology(ie: slow the car's reaction down to accomodate the .500 tree). On any given pairing , you could have a 6 second car vs. a 9 second car. Imagine trying to stop the flood of redlights in ProStock, if there were to try and slow there RT down, to accomodate a .500 tree. Welcome to Comp 2007. Let us use the ProTree if we chose to and for those who want the FullTree, so be it.
 
I would like to nominate Len"s post being the BEST post of the year!!!!!!!! Thanks Len. My guess on the button is the .03 Dedenbear or Biondo slightly adjustable button. Seems to be 1 of the most common buttons out there, affecting the least amout of racers out there.
 
Len

We need your help on this one..... The Split .500 Full / .400 Pro tree already exists in the latest Compulink Software.

All NHRA needs to do is specify the use of an existing system. No tree change is required.

Check out the two item poll created by the Tanksleys. The top two favorites both ask for .400 between the amber and green. It accounts for more than
80% of the Comp. Racers that responded to the poll. You have told me in the past that if we (comp. racers) could agree on something, NHRA would consider it. It appears that most of us agree on .400 between the amber and the green.

Comp. cars have evolved way beyond the .500 tree.

The switch rule change is low in popularity on the above poll.

Christmas tree evolution is continually changing. There have been many changes since it's introduction in the mid 60s. You and I both raced during that time. Comp. cars of today move quicker than Top Fuel cars did in 1970, when the Pro Tree was introduced.

The Pro Tree was designed to reduce Red Lights. It was initially a .500 Pro tree and was reduced the next race to .400 after a request from myself and others. I was racing Top Gas at the time. My written request was printed in National Dragster, late in 1970.

The tree change with the biggest impact was the .400 Pro tree.

The split tree has been around for three or four years, about the same amount of time as the LED bulbs. It works well when matching drag machines
with a wide variance in performance.

Please consider using it.

Ray H.
 
Want less redlights- get better drivers in comp.While we are all guilty of red-lighting, some do it more than others. These "drivers" who redlight often are the ones that could be doing the most complaining. This is a game of skills and intelligence, not "make it easier for me so I can do a better job of cutting a light". If you can't cut a light, GET OUT OF THE CAR
 
Wait a second,you mean you want us drivers to be held accountable for our actions?????????lol .I was kinda getting used to blaming NHRA for my crappy driving!
 
Shane;
You know as well as I do that we all have bad days. We ALL redlight. We ALL snooze. Some just do it more than others. They're saying 33% of the races are decided by redlight?? How many races were decided by a late light??? In MY OPINION, it's probably close to 1/3. So this is very simple>>>> 33% of the drivers in comp CAN'T DRIVE!!!!!!!!
 
My view is that some of the red lights are caused by people being at performance disadvantages and trying to hit the tree, just as some people are late because they have a big performance advantage and want to be safe. There is no getting around those no matter what the tree is. Some are caused because cars leave hard and it is difficult to slow them down. That's what we need to worry about, but we also need to make sure that low power cars aren't put at a disadvantage because of what some cars car do.

Finally, some cars either have problems or the track is so good that the car hooks when it needs to spin a little to work. Those were the cause of the red lights out of our team at Pomona.
 
Dave Cook, I couldn't agree with you more, well said!

I wonder how long before this post gets deleted as the rest of them have???



John Mahoney
 
David,

David Cook said:
Want less redlights- get better drivers in comp.While we are all guilty of red-lighting, some do it more than others. These "drivers" who redlight often are the ones that could be doing the most complaining. This is a game of skills and intelligence, not "make it easier for me so I can do a better job of cutting a light". If you can't cut a light, GET OUT OF THE CAR
Click to expand...

When the tree had the regular bulbs I would actually see the light coming on.
I only used a toggle switch with no delay. Now with the LED lights they are instantly on so I feel the read is more difficult. If your car runs 105 in sixty foot and a reaction time of 020 and u feel there is room to improve on your sixty foot time. Then how do u determine where to leave on the bulb other than add a shim to your button. My point is a .4 tenth tree will eliminate the need for a delay button. When u see YELLOW u should be able to go.
Consistant good drivers will adapt and the ones that are so so should improve and the no drivers will always be in their own league. All this string was about was, more GREEN light rounds instead of the every third pr redlights in 2007. Glad I have RP in the HOT SEAT. LOL:cool:

Richie
 
Richie;
You know you're one of my comp heroes.I know this thread is about more green lights. I'll kinda use you example; if you go 1.05 in 60ft. and thought you could make it better, what did you do? You worked on the car. I had a hard time with the LED lights too. But you know what, I worked on the driver!!I still need work. I will ALWAYS NEED WORK. Good drivers improvise. Thats why a certain few (Rampy,Taylor, Butner, Arragona ETC.) win more often than anyone else. They don't ask for polls every other week so the rules can be changed to fit their weakness. I stand by what I said earlier. Can't drive, GET OUT>>>> if these people don't know who they are, all they have to do is look at their log book and look under the letters RT, and they will know who they are.
David Cook
 
My name is Rich Gentili. I work with the Watson Boyz whenever I can. I race motorcycles in D-4, and have finished in the top 8 for the last 5 years including being the champ in 05. I have been racing since 68, normally that makes me one of the "old guys", but not in this group. I have opinions. I have been reading this forum for over a year and this is my first post. I have NO STANDING with this group other than experience. I don't agree with polls. If there are to be polls let the OWNERS and DRIVERS have a seperate login and voting STANDING. I will NEVER vote on this forum because I lack STANDING, ......as do others.
I have raced for a LONG time, Pro Tree, Full Tree, Box, No Box, if you think that all that is the difference between winning and losing, line up, you're a loser. The only game that is being played after the first light is on, is between your ears. If you can't handle that.... YOU LOSE. Of course I lose, just like everybody else. The days I can't manage my mind all I have going is instinct and luck, and in the long run that's not going to get it.
We are all racers. I would guess that half of one percent of all the people we know share our knowledge of the sport. Many times when I'm at the track, someone will ask me "What's going on? why so many different classes, with different trees, with different situations, (The staggered tree, the throttle delay), my answer is an analogy. If you have a deck of cards there are many games that can be played, the DEALER or the TABLE decides. When you sit down at that table, the rules are already established. If you want a different game, go to a different table.
Last year Roger Brogdon suggested junior Pro Stock, less than a week ago a poster known as Cutta suggested a whole new class complete with RULES, if you don't like the sandbox, take your shovel and go home.
Work on your head, not on the rules.
This is just an opinion from another poster that lacks STANDING as an OWNER or a DRIVER.
 
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